Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Yes, I find it strange indeed that after the book of Malachi comes to an end, 27 more biblical books later, all the hoopla in the latter Old Testament books about a "latter day" regathering of Israel completely and abruptly ceases. Doesn't this just seem odd?
In THIS thread, I responded to someone using some cut and paste material to prove that Israel's establishment in 1948 was a fulfillment of biblical prophecy. What has ALWAYS been interesting to me is that such prophecies are strictly relegated to the Old Testament. Take careful note. You would be hard pressed to find such glorious predictions in the New Testament. Why?
I am sure some will say, "well the New Testament is under the dispensation of grace (church age) so it is not concerned with Israel's regathering," however, I find this explanation rather lacking. I also know some will point to the "fig tree" analogy, but that too is not exactly conclusive. Even the book of Revelation, supposedly the book that details THE END is rather silent about any great regathering prediction of Israel becoming a nation again in the distant future.
Isn't it far more likely that the Old Testament writers were writing about their times and THEIR immediate futures? At the time the Jews were indeed scattered all over the place and the religious community, notably the prophets, believed that god was going to restore them all to the land, beat up Israel's enemies and make Jerusalem the centerpiece of worship. To some degree, the Jews did regain their land, re-established Jerusalem as their capital and fought successful "holy wars" to keep it that way. Could this have something to do with why none of the New Testament writers concerned themselves with an issue that had already passed?
Seems the temple would have to be rebuilt in troublous times was it built the second time in chaos ? Jesus said it would be torn down and no stone would be standing, but there is the wailing wall still stading . Was that part of the temple ?
True. I think that would be Mike55's position if I recall. Something about a dual prophecy.
Yes... but I could predict just about anything and with the excuse "dual prophecy" I could be called a great prophet.
So if they accept that dual fulfillment excuse for Nostradomus or others then I guess it is a valid option but if it only applies in Christianity... something smells.
Seems the temple would have to be rebuilt in troublous times was it built the second time in chaos ? Jesus said it would be torn down and no stone would be standing, but there is the wailing wall still stading . Was that part of the temple ?
Yes it was as far as I know.
Last edited by InsaneInDaMembrane; 04-19-2010 at 10:53 PM..
True. I think that would be Mike55's position if I recall. Something about a dual prophecy.
Israel is only partially regathered and in a state of unbelief as of 1948. Israel will not be fully regathered until the Lord returns at the second Advent.
Readers can refer back to post #5 and see exactly what I said.
Many have been deceived to think that Gods Israel, to whom all the promises were made, is a particular race of people, but its not, Gods Israel to whom pertains the promises is ethnically diversified, comprised of men and women of all nationalites, its not a people of race, but of grace..
Jesus has given many indications that Israel according to the flesh was not the chosen People of God..and that their nation would be cut off even from its earthly privileges of once being in a National Covenant relationship with God..
Matt 21:
42Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
43Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
The Kingdom of God shall be Taken from you..and that once and for all..
All the earthly Glory Israel once had as being a People of God, a represenation of the Kingdom of God on earth, well that has been taken away from them by God..
Jesus was announcing her end and at the same time annoucing Gods New representative Nation, though really not new, but now being more manifested.. This Covenant people will be highlighted with both jew and gentiles for here on out, the Israel of God. This People [The Israel of God] did exist in the OT but was mostly jewish people who existed in national israel, but now would be the time for the gathering in of the gentiles who were of the Israel of God..
Look at the context of Matt 21 and it gives us clear evidence of the end of national Israel :
33Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:
34And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it.
35And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.
36Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.
37But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.
38But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.
39And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.
40When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?
41They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
42Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
43Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
44And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
45And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.
If there was a regathering in Israel now... of all the Christians and/or people with some amount of Jewish blood... they would have to have a pretty big temple! This may have been possible in 70AD but hardly now.
This partial regathering usually leads to the thought that temple animal sacrifices will begin again and NOWHERE in scripture is that said.
National Israel as God's Covenant People is long over !
The end of the Kingdom of God represented by National Covenant Israel is Illustrated by Jesus here:
Matt 22:
1And Jesus answered and spake unto them again by parables, and said,
2The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,
3And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.
4Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.
5But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise:
6And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them.
7But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.
8Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.
And here lk 20:
9Then began he to speak to the people this parable; A certain man planted a vineyard, and let it forth to husbandmen, and went into a far country for a long time.
10And at the season he sent a servant to the husbandmen, that they should give him of the fruit of the vineyard: but the husbandmen beat him, and sent him away empty.
11And again he sent another servant: and they beat him also, and entreated him shamefully, and sent him away empty.
12And again he sent a third: and they wounded him also, and cast him out.
13Then said the lord of the vineyard, What shall I do? I will send my beloved son: it may be they will reverence him when they see him.
14But when the husbandmen saw him, they reasoned among themselves, saying, This is the heir: come, let us kill him, that the inheritance may be ours.
15So they cast him out of the vineyard, and killed him. What therefore shall the lord of the vineyard do unto them?
16He shall come and destroy these husbandmen, and shall give the vineyard to others. And when they heard it, they said, God forbid.
17And he beheld them, and said, What is this then that is written, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner?
18Whosoever shall fall upon that stone shall be broken; but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
Notice vs 16 He [ God ] shall come and destroy these husbandmen [ National Israel] and shall give the vineyard [ Covenant representation of the Kingdom of God] to others [ the gentile church]..
Matt 21 43
Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
The word taken here is the greek word airo:
And means:
cause to cease
Jesus Christ death on the cross caused their end as Gods national Covenant People and later the confirmation of that was seen by the armies coming and destroying their worship capital..
So His taking away their privilege, caused it to cease..
Heb 8:
13 In that He says, “A new covenant, ” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away/cease.
The National Covenant of Israel has become obsolete and Has ceased to exist, it has poof, vanished away..
In THIS thread, I responded to someone using some cut and paste material to prove that Israel's establishment in 1948 was a fulfillment of biblical prophecy. What has ALWAYS been interesting to me is that such prophecies are strictly relegated to the Old Testament. Take careful note. You would be hard pressed to find such glorious predictions in the New Testament. Why?
I am sure some will say, "well the New Testament is under the dispensation of grace (church age) so it is not concerned with Israel's regathering," however, I find this explanation rather lacking. I also know some will point to the "fig tree" analogy, but that too is not exactly conclusive. Even the book of Revelation, supposedly the book that details THE END is rather silent about any great regathering prediction of Israel becoming a nation again in the distant future.
Isn't it far more likely that the Old Testament writers were writing about their times and THEIR immediate futures? At the time the Jews were indeed scattered all over the place and the religious community, notably the prophets, believed that god was going to restore them all to the land, beat up Israel's enemies and make Jerusalem the centerpiece of worship. To some degree, the Jews did regain their land, re-established Jerusalem as their capital and fought successful "holy wars" to keep it that way. Could this have something to do with why none of the New Testament writers concerned themselves with an issue that had already passed?
Hi InsaneInDaMembrane,
Not only that, but you may find its fulfillment in Acts.
Acts 2
5 And there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men, from every nation under heaven.
As Christ said in John, who's father was really Abraham?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Gods Israel
