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Old 04-19-2010, 07:09 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
God did not intend for the believer to just read the Bible entirely on his own without being under the teaching ministry of a pastor/teacher. That is why the Holy Spirit gives the gift of pastor/teacher to certain men, who must then prepare by means of academic study so that they may teach the word of God to those who are under their ministry. The believer can understand some things on his own, but to advance spiritually, one must place himself under a qualified pastor.

God always has a system in the carrying out of His overall plan. For the dispensation of the church, God's established system with regard to the individual believers spiritual advance involves being under the authority of the pastor/teacher.

Ephesians 4:11 And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers. 12) for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ; 13) until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fulness of Christ. 14) As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves, and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness in deceitful scheming; 15) but speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects into Him, who is the head, even Christ, 16) from whom the whole body, being fitted and held together by that which every joint supplies, according to the proper working of each individual part, cause the growth of the body for the building up of itself in love.

After the man with the gift of pastor/teacher has prepared himself through rigorous academic study, he is prepared to go into the word of God and study and dig out the doctrines that are contained in the scriptures and then teach them to his congregation. This is the principle. In practice, most pastors fail to carry out the responsibility that God has entrusted to them. But in every generation, God sees to it that there are prepared pastors who will faithfully utilize their gift and feed the flock.

From the beginning of the church-age it has been so.
This is all fine and dandy in rich, western countries with such institutions, but what about those people in countries where such things do not exist? How is a pastor qualified over in such places?
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Old 04-19-2010, 07:12 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,214 posts, read 3,330,103 times
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This regathering IS THE MYSTERY.

Acts 3:25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed. Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

Matt 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Isa 2:3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

Deut 30:2,3 And shalt return unto the LORD thy God, and shalt obey his voice according to all that I command thee this day, thou and thy children, with all thine heart, and with all thy soul; That then the LORD thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath scattered thee.

Eph 2:19,20 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

Psa 24:3,4 Who shall ascend into the hill of the LORD? or who shall stand in his holy place? He that hath clean hands, and a pure heart; who hath not lifted up his soul unto vanity, nor sworn deceitfully.

Isa 59:21 As for me, this [is] my covenant with them, saith the LORD; My spirit that [is] upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the LORD, from henceforth and for ever.

Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

Isa 27:9 By this therefore shall the iniquity of Jacob be purged; and this [is] all the fruit to take away his sin; when he maketh all the stones of the altar as chalkstones that are beaten in sunder, the groves and images shall not stand up.

Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Rom 16:25,26 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith.

Eph 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

1 Cor 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

Col 1:26 [Even] the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

Rev 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.


Quote:
I also know some will point to the "fig tree" analogy, but that too is not exactly conclusive
As a matter of fact, it is.
The Mystery is the unification of Jew and Gentile into one body, one bride for Christ.

Rom 11:12 Now if the fall of them [be] the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what [is] the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

Rev 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

The church, the mystery is the Gentiles becoming part of Israel.
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Old 04-19-2010, 07:23 PM
 
4,832 posts, read 3,980,701 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
This regathering IS THE MYSTERY.

Acts 3:25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed. Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

Matt 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Isa 2:3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

Deut 30:2,3 And shalt return unto the LORD thy God, and shalt obey his voice according to all that I command thee this day, thou and thy children, with all thine heart, and with all thy soul; That then the LORD thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath scattered thee.

Eph 2:19,20 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

Psa 24:3,4 Who shall ascend into the hill of the LORD? or who shall stand in his holy place? He that hath clean hands, and a pure heart; who hath not lifted up his soul unto vanity, nor sworn deceitfully.

Isa 59:21 As for me, this [is] my covenant with them, saith the LORD; My spirit that [is] upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the LORD, from henceforth and for ever.

Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

Isa 27:9 By this therefore shall the iniquity of Jacob be purged; and this [is] all the fruit to take away his sin; when he maketh all the stones of the altar as chalkstones that are beaten in sunder, the groves and images shall not stand up.

Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Rom 16:25,26 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith.

Eph 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

1 Cor 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

Col 1:26 [Even] the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

Rev 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.




As a matter of fact, it is.
The Mystery is the unification of Jew and Gentile into one body, one bride for Christ.

Rom 11:12 Now if the fall of them [be] the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what [is] the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

Rev 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

The church, the mystery is the Gentiles becoming part of Israel.
Why are these obscure things always mysteries yet always 'explained' by certain individuals? What exactly is the mystery here scio?
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Old 04-19-2010, 07:47 PM
 
12,899 posts, read 6,974,942 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneInDaMembrane View Post
This is all fine and dandy in rich, western countries with such institutions, but what about those people in countries where such things do not exist? How is a pastor qualified over in such places?
That's what missionary activity is about. To not only give the Gospel, but to help set up churches and train pastors. God will send those who are prepared to wherever He wants them.
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Old 04-19-2010, 07:52 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,214 posts, read 3,330,103 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneInDaMembrane View Post
Why are these obscure things always mysteries yet always 'explained' by certain individuals? What exactly is the mystery here scio?
The mystery is the marrage of the Jewish and Gentile body as the church. That is the regathering. Scripture explained it. I gave you the correlating verses, there are many more.....Any commentary will give these specific verses, and then some.
These I supplied were compiled from a commentary by Matthew Henry. No scripture is of private interpretation. You must converge with others of the faith in order for Christ to guide you. Where there are two or more, there He is.
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Old 04-19-2010, 08:09 PM
 
4,832 posts, read 3,980,701 times
Reputation: 994
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
That's what missionary activity is about. To not only give the Gospel, but to help set up churches and train pastors. God will send those who are prepared to wherever He wants them.
Hmm...For some reason, I thought god was so great he could reveal himself to people in the most remote places. I figured this made missionaries redundant. Aren't the missionaries just going to simply expose the "heathen" to their version of Christianity, meaning the hearer will ONLY learn their particular slant on scripture?
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Old 04-19-2010, 08:11 PM
 
4,832 posts, read 3,980,701 times
Reputation: 994
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
The mystery is the marrage of the Jewish and Gentile body as the church. That is the regathering. Scripture explained it. I gave you the correlating verses, there are many more.....Any commentary will give these specific verses, and then some.
These I supplied were compiled from a commentary by Matthew Henry. No scripture is of private interpretation. You must converge with others of the faith in order for Christ to guide you. Where there are two or more, there He is.
Well that is certainly an interest way of looking at things. So the regathering is NOT about modern Jews and modern Israel. It's a spiritual thing? Seems ike and guys like SCGraham hold different views.
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Old 04-19-2010, 09:51 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
6,805 posts, read 4,822,086 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneInDaMembrane View Post
Clearly there are quite a few.
That was a rhetorical question... and was not intended to make the one who wrote it look like an idiot for asking...
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Old 04-19-2010, 09:58 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
6,805 posts, read 4,822,086 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneInDaMembrane View Post
Why are these obscure things always mysteries yet always 'explained' by certain individuals? What exactly is the mystery here scio?
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Old 04-19-2010, 10:12 PM
 
4,832 posts, read 3,980,701 times
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Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
that was a rhetorical question... And was not intended to make the one who wrote it look like an idiot for asking...
:d
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