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Old 04-20-2010, 12:48 AM
 
425 posts, read 275,785 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by little elmer View Post
I'd like to know what it's like to have no knowledge of good and evil - since that's all we're consumed with now.
I was without that knowledge in the original sense of the terms are they relate to a Hebrew paradigm. A woman who was given a book by a Serpent gave it to me , it was called Be Here Now. I started reading the book and got to a part where it said to be born again one must die. I felt very heavy and tired and I was released. I don't know how long I was gone but it was for a while . I could sense my soul was in the clouds that was the only sense. I then was filled with breath again. All a true story that happened feet away where I first talked to God without any real biblical reading a few years earlier . I told him if he existed to prove it , and then I asked him to give me all the bad first, and then the good. I had the foresight to know that I didn't want them mixed. Anyway a month after I temporarily expired I went into a descent into some pretty dark visions and folks who were from the dark side of things. I ended up back at home 10 weeks or so later and had a dream with an angel who showed me wheelworks in Heaven. I didnt recall the dream until after my dad died and a few more years had passed after that before the cognition of the dream , I had started studying Hebrew. Nothing in my life has been anything short of dramatic.I lost my inoocence to it all in some ways when I went into the bad places. All I know is my faith kept me putting one foot in front of the other and that knowledge of Tov and Ra is part of maturing as a child of YHVH . It is our cross to bear and the crux of it is in Leviticus.
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Old 04-20-2010, 02:25 AM
 
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I think Adam was created with the perfect human genome (as were all the animals,but as scripture says,as one dieth,so dieth the other..) as was Eve,and each would have lived forever,free from sin and death and disease,and any unhappiness...they would not have known it.Enter satan,who somehow tainted the genome,which is now messed up and so we are all cursed from the effects of it.
(btw,God commanded them to be fruitful and multiply before the fall, and Eve would have given birth then without pain,(as scripture says after the fall,she would now give birth in pain..).So something about the body thus changed with the fall.

btw,I think unraveling the human genome,as we have now done with technology, is going to be important to the antichrist,who is somehow going to use it to construct a body or bodies with what he claims is again perfect,as Adam and Eve once were.Maybe it will be himself,and maybe he will even take a sample of blood from the Shroud of Turin and somehow use it to claim he is God.I do think he is going to use the 3D technology from the Shroud to fool those who here on earth at the time.Maybe that is how he (or the false prophet) will create an image in which he will somehow pretend to breath life into it.
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Old 04-20-2010, 02:33 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
I believe he would have never suffered either physical death or spiritual death. In other words, he would still be in the Garden of Eden in exactly the same state as he was when first placed there. (I imagine he'd be getting kind of bored by now. ) He and Eve would be alone, though, according to my beliefs. None of us would have ever been born.
respectfully I disagree;that is why God said Eve would now give birth in pain.
The commandment to be fruitful and multiply was given before the fall.
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Old 04-20-2010, 07:20 AM
 
672 posts, read 539,575 times
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scgra:

Quote:
Adam and Eve already knew Jesus.
Scripture please ? Jesus is Saviour from sin, how would they know Him before they sinned and realized their need ?
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Old 04-20-2010, 08:31 AM
 
5,441 posts, read 4,703,388 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by savedbysovereigngrace View Post
scgra:

Scripture please ? Jesus is Saviour from sin, how would they know Him before they sinned and realized their need ?
One needs to study the entire Holy Scriptures to grasp all of it. But, I'll give you some guidance.

Gen.1
[26] And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: ...

Who do you suppose "us" and "our" would be? The answer: The Father, The Son and The Holy Ghost.

God's image is holiness and righteousness. The devil's image is rebellion and sin. Adam & Eve were created in holiness, righteousness and love; they had communion with the Godhead.

Gen.2
[18] And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
[19] And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
[20] And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.

Had Adam and Eve lived free from sin, it would have always been that way for the whole human race. However, they sinned and the entire human race was fallen. This is why there was a need for Jesus to come down and to take on flesh like us humans; and, then He became a perfect and sinless sacrifice acceptable to God to restore us back into God's image; this was a blood sacrifice; divine blood from Heaven was shed to cleanse the sinner.

I imagine that many are confused about all of this because they don't believe that the children of God, who Jesus redeemed, restored and made holy through His blood, must live free from sin -- just Adam and Eve were commanded to do. God's message is the same today as it was in the beginning: if you partake of the forbidden fruit (sin of any kind), you will die. It only takes one willful sin to lose communion with God -- just as Adam and Eve only sinned once to lose it.

Gen.2
[16] And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
[17] But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
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Old 04-20-2010, 10:56 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,436,298 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SC122 View Post
respectfully I disagree;that is why God said Eve would now give birth in pain.
The commandment to be fruitful and multiply was given before the fall.
So are you saying that there were children in the garden?
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Old 04-20-2010, 10:59 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,436,298 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scgraham View Post
One needs to study the entire Holy Scriptures to grasp all of it. But, I'll give you some guidance.

Gen.1
[26] And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: ...

Who do you suppose "us" and "our" would be? The answer: The Father, The Son and The Holy Ghost.

God's image is holiness and righteousness. The devil's image is rebellion and sin. Adam & Eve were created in holiness, righteousness and love; they had communion with the Godhead.

Gen.2
[18] And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
[19] And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
[20] And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.

Had Adam and Eve lived free from sin, it would have always been that way for the whole human race. However, they sinned and the entire human race was fallen. This is why there was a need for Jesus to come down and to take on flesh like us humans; and, then He became a perfect and sinless sacrifice acceptable to God to restore us back into God's image; this was a blood sacrifice; divine blood from Heaven was shed to cleanse the sinner.

I imagine that many are confused about all of this because they don't believe that the children of God, who Jesus redeemed, restored and made holy through His blood, must live free from sin -- just Adam and Eve were commanded to do. God's message is the same today as it was in the beginning: if you partake of the forbidden fruit (sin of any kind), you will die. It only takes one willful sin to lose communion with God -- just as Adam and Eve only sinned once to lose it.

Gen.2
[16] And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
[17] But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Yet grace covered all sins...even willful ones. The sin of one man affected all people just as the sacrifice of one man affected all sinners.

Funny that God was not more clear in Gen. 2:17... he said IN THE DAY you eat it.... you shall surely die... yet they didn't die that day.
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Old 04-20-2010, 11:10 AM
 
5,441 posts, read 4,703,388 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Yet grace covered all sins...even willful ones.
Not new willful sins.

Adam and Eve committed willful sin, and they died just as God said. If the born-again commit willful sin, Jesus' blood no longer protects them.

Heb.10
[26] For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
[27] But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
[28] He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
[29] Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
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Old 04-20-2010, 11:23 AM
 
1,492 posts, read 2,235,045 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
So are you saying that there were children in the garden?
no,but of course Eve gave birth, to Cain and Able...who were born after the fall.I'm saying they were capable of having children then,but it didn't happen.satan got his bid in pretty early.
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Old 04-20-2010, 01:17 PM
 
672 posts, read 539,575 times
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kat:

Quote:
Yet grace covered all sins...even willful ones.

Not of the non elect, those who were not chosen in Christ.
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