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Old 04-20-2010, 03:09 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scgraham View Post
Adam and Eve already had eternal life; they were made to live forever. If they would have lived free from sin, our earth would be paradise today, not chaos. God intended for them to always walk in holiness. This intention has not changed for the Church of Jesus Christ today; we are to walk in holiness, which is free from sin.
Actually, God intended Adam and Eve to sin. He made them so they would sin. He made them flesh knowing full well in advance that:

Romans 8:6-8 CLV "For the disposition of the flesh is death, yet the
disposition of the spirit is life and peace, (7) because the disposition of
the flesh is enmity to God, for it is not subject to the law of God, for
neither is it able." (8) Now those who are in flesh are not able to please
God."

And what happened at the very first temptation for the pair? They failed! They needed to fail because they did not know good nor evil. The tree is the knowledge of good AND evil, not just evil.

Also, God needed them to sin so that He could have the Saviour save mankind from sin and death.
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Old 04-20-2010, 04:21 PM
 
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If Adam had never sinned then there the earth would be a diffrent place and Adam would be sitting in the throne where Jesus sits today.... The Knowledge of good and evil where most believers know which is common. will be lost to believers when they enter Heaven and the Lord God cleans this knowledge out of his Children because there is no purpose for the knowlenge of God and evil in Heaven especially after Judgement day has passed are need to rule over the earth with a iron septure with Jesus.............
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Old 04-20-2010, 04:56 PM
 
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hljc:

Quote:
If Adam had never sinned then there the earth would be a diffrent place and Adam would be sitting in the throne where Jesus sits today..
You have scripture for this statement ?
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Old 04-20-2010, 04:59 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scgraham View Post
One needs to study the entire Holy Scriptures to grasp all of it. But, I'll give you some guidance.

Gen.1
[26] And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: ...

Who do you suppose "us" and "our" would be? The answer: The Father, The Son and The Holy Ghost.

God's image is holiness and righteousness. The devil's image is rebellion and sin. Adam & Eve were created in holiness, righteousness and love; they had communion with the Godhead.

Gen.2
[18] And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
[19] And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
[20] And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.

Had Adam and Eve lived free from sin, it would have always been that way for the whole human race. However, they sinned and the entire human race was fallen. This is why there was a need for Jesus to come down and to take on flesh like us humans; and, then He became a perfect and sinless sacrifice acceptable to God to restore us back into God's image; this was a blood sacrifice; divine blood from Heaven was shed to cleanse the sinner.

I imagine that many are confused about all of this because they don't believe that the children of God, who Jesus redeemed, restored and made holy through His blood, must live free from sin -- just Adam and Eve were commanded to do. God's message is the same today as it was in the beginning: if you partake of the forbidden fruit (sin of any kind), you will die. It only takes one willful sin to lose communion with God -- just as Adam and Eve only sinned once to lose it.

Gen.2
[16] And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
[17] But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
I did not see one scripture that says Adam knew Jesus christ the Saviour before the Fall..
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Old 04-20-2010, 07:20 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SC122 View Post
respectfully I disagree;that is why God said Eve would now give birth in pain.
The commandment to be fruitful and multiply was given before the fall.
I agree that the commandment to be fruitful and multiply was given prior to the fall, so we agree on that much. I just don't believe that Adam and Eve would have been able to obey that commandment had they not eaten the forbidden fruit. I believe that it only when they were changed from immortal to mortal beings (being subject to death) that they were also able to be co-creators, along with God, of new life. I'm not saying they didn't have all the necessary body parts. I just see the entire cycle of life as being a strictly mortal one, and that until their state was changed from one where death was impossible to one where it was an absolute eventuality, the same holds true with respect to the ability to reproduce.

If you ask me for chapter and verse to support this conclusion, I'm not going to be able to give it to you, and I admit that at the outset. I do think it's worth noting, though, that it was only after they ate the forbidden fruit that they realized that they were naked. I see this as symbolic of the childlike state of sexual innocence in which they existed until after the fall. Take any sexually mature man and woman and place them alone somewhere and they're definitely going to know that they're naked! I believe that the references to Adam's and Eve's lack of realization that they were naked can be understood to say that even though they had all the right equipment from the start, it's unreasonable to think that they would have been having sexual relations all along. While the Bible doesn't say that they did not have sexual relations prior to the fall, the first time it is specifically mentioned that "Adam knew His wife" was after they were cast out.
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Old 04-20-2010, 07:23 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Actually, God intended Adam and Eve to sin. He made them so they would sin. And what happened at the very first temptation for the pair? They failed! They needed to fail because they did not know good nor evil. The tree is the knowledge of good AND evil, not just evil.... Also, God needed them to sin so that He could have the Saviour save mankind from sin and death.
I agree, except that I don't believe their disobedience could actually be called a "sin." I think that every instance of disobedience after the Fall could be considered a "sin," but the one that led them to gain knowledge of good and evil in the first place was not.
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Old 04-21-2010, 08:30 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Actually, God intended Adam and Eve to sin. He made them so they would sin. He made them flesh knowing full well in advance that:
That's probably why many Christians live a life of sin -- which is in direct contrast to God's Word. God and sin don't mix. He proved that when He cast satan and his followers out of Heaven; they are reserved for the day of Judgement. Also, He proved it when He drove Adam and Eve out of the Garden because of willful sin. If He didn't spare them, He won't spare us either. You can spin the Word of God to your liking, but you can't change Its meaning. Man was to always walk in holiness.

Tit.2
[7] In all things shewing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine shewing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity,
[8] Sound speech, that cannot be condemned; that he that is of the contrary part may be ashamed, having no evil thing to say of you.

[11] For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
[12] Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
[13] Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
[14] Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
[15] These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.
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Old 04-21-2010, 09:41 AM
 
Location: Gulf Coast Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
I believe he would have never suffered either physical death or spiritual death. In other words, he would still be in the Garden of Eden in exactly the same state as he was when first placed there. (I imagine he'd be getting kind of bored by now. ) He and Eve would be alone, though, according to my beliefs. None of us would have ever been born.
Regarding the bold above - the command to be fruitful and multiply came before the sin. Therefore they would have had children. Pain in childbirth came after the curse.
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Old 04-21-2010, 09:55 AM
 
Location: Gulf Coast Texas
26,330 posts, read 14,216,501 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
I agree, except that I don't believe their disobedience could actually be called a "sin." I think that every instance of disobedience after the Fall could be considered a "sin," but the one that led them to gain knowledge of good and evil in the first place was not.
You don't believe their disobedience could be called sin??

They had only one prohibition, and they couldn't get that right. The directly transgressed God's word. What else should it be called?
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Old 04-21-2010, 06:00 PM
 
3,585 posts, read 464,829 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
I agree, except that I don't believe their disobedience could actually be called a "sin." I think that every instance of disobedience after the Fall could be considered a "sin," but the one that led them to gain knowledge of good and evil in the first place was not.
Interesting ..........

Looking at the words describing Adams fall

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.


Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
Rom 5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
Rom 5:16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
Rom 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Rom 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Rom 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
Rom 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

transgression = G3847 παράβασις parabasis par-ab'-as-is
From G3845; violation: - breaking, transgression.

offence = G3900 παράπτωμα paraptōma par-ap'-to-mah
From G3895; a side slip (lapse or deviation), that is, (unintentional) error or (wilful) transgression: - fall, fault, offence, sin, trespass.
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