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As in monks? Or maybe even the prophet John wandering?
For the most part, I don't believe that we are to be wandering around by ourselves. We were made to have families and community. I don't think much of what the Catholic church does is very Biblical, anyhow, if that was what you were talking about, about religious hermits. If we separate into these "special" places, we don't have the Salt mingling much with the unsalted. If we are not on the same level as others, how are we supposed to show the love of God to others? We become these exalted creatures that live in these special quiet places that don't have any kind of reality to them, really.
We are supposed to show God's love, patience, and kindness even in the middle of madness. Who is going to look at a religious hermit and say, "wow, very powerful stuff?" They aren't interacting with the madness as others have to do on a daily basis. Those that do live in the "REAL WORLD" and still keep their wits and kindness about them, now THAT is a TESTIMONY to God's power and love vs. the worlds power and "love."
We have to have the interaction. We are supposed to keep our mind and spirit separate, that much is true, but physically we should be out and about, showing people what and who God is and how He works. We are supposed to be servants, as Christ was, to the people.
If we have to have PEACE and QUIET at all times, what does that show, anyway? Nothing much. We don't actually get closer to God until we have those experiences with ALL those other humans out there. Getting our hands messy.
Sometimes, the prophets of old had to wander. They had a specific job to do, and it took a lot of time and energy; they kept themselves away from the people for a purpose. I find that helpful for myself, as well. I needed to separate from the noise of humanity for various reasons that I don't really want go into here, but it should never become a way of life. Where is the SALT, then? What purpose does it have. To FLAVOR.
You have a way of putting very eloquently what I am thinking Can not rep you as I am in "rep jail" (How someone else puts it - I like how that sounds)
I finally came out from under the weight of my pastor of 8 years who preaches a false gospel...
...I came to the knowledge of the truth 14 months ago...it has been a remarkable year of growth as a Christian and has strengthened me so much spiritually!...and I finally know what true freedom feels like! I am so happy!
Getting to this point of separation has been quite a journey...something that has been building up now for 14 months...ever since the LORD blessed me with the knowledge of the truth. Since then, more and more every Sunday, every message my pastor taught would in some manner bring tears to my eyes. I would leave feeling as if something had sucked the breath right out of me...where I would have to come home and just cry out to God...sit in His arms, and let Him restore what I had lost there in the service...a very heavy burden to bear.
It took me a long time to leave because I was not willing to let go of what gave me so much pleasure...and what I knew gave the Lord so much pleasure as well...ministering to and praying for the people...leading them into the presence of the LORD in praise and worship, singing the alto part in our ensemble...which gave me so much joy...I only missed maybe 10 Sunday's in eight years...giving love to my First Love......but there just comes a time when you know...when you finally realize, that you have to let go of even the good when it is mixed with bad...when the bad hinders your growth. There was a lot of manipulation and control...and lies. I know God will give me a new song...in a new season.
The straw that broke the camel's back was last Sunday...
Our church has a tradition...we all gather in a circle holding hands and pray 30 minutes before service starts (we are a very small church...no growth in 16 years.....good people keep leaving)...from the very young to the very old we join hands...no one has to pray if they do not want to..so the one's who do have a prayer on their heart, do. I am one of about 6 people who always have a prayer for my church...for the pastor and his wife...and for the people and their needs...
...last Sunday, after our prayer circle had finished...the pastor's wife came up to me and asked me not to pray in the circle anymore...and she said it with a smile...after her initial request, she continued to talk and explain, but I didn't hear anything after that...I was swallowing hard...fighting back the tears...I just couldn't believe it. Her reason was to make the youth pray......they hardly ever pray...they are very shy...there have been a few who do, once in a great while, give a very timid prayer....but it is so precious...I encourage them when they do...but it isn't often.
So I did ask her one thing when she was finished...I asked, "So, what do I do if no one is praying...and there is just silence for a long time?" she replied, "Don't pray anyway...just let it stay silent."...and she walked away.
I did all I could through the rest of the service everytime I thought of it, to keep from crying.
It took me three days to decide that was it, I couldn't take anymore...plus...I never shook off the day, a year ago, when he called me into his office and told me if I ever ministered my beliefs (the truth) to anyone else, and he heard about it, he would have to ask me to leave...since then, I have kept my mouth shut...remained faithful to the ministry of music and prayer that God has given to me, thinking I would be able to balance it all together...but you cannot mix darkness with light...it is an unequal yoke...a very heavy yoke to bear.
But I am free now...praise God!...and it feels so good!...so liberating!
Well, Verna I am happy that you are happy in your decision. Honestly, it sounds like maybe there was a bit of confusion or a misunderstanding. I don't know her motive but it sounds like she just wanted the youth to pray more. It sounds like there were only the same people praying over and over and maybe she just wanted to encourage others to get involved including the youth.
She should have had a meeting or something and explained herself better. I would have never asked you to not pray, but I would have atleast tried to balance out where the youth had time to pray over the ones who normally prayed.
At my church there are some youth who are shy and act the same. We don't tell the people not to pray, we just wait patiently on the youth to say something. We help them along.
So, this is just my opinion, but it sounds like it was just a misunderstanding and she should have found a better way to speak to you about the matter. It doesn't sound like the women meant to do what she did to hurt you. Sometime people mean well, but don't come off well.
As in monks? Or maybe even the prophet John wandering?
For the most part, I don't believe that we are to be wandering around by ourselves. We were made to have families and community. I don't think much of what the Catholic church does is very Biblical, anyhow, if that was what you were talking about, about religious hermits. If we separate into these "special" places, we don't have the Salt mingling much with the unsalted. If we are not on the same level as others, how are we supposed to show the love of God to others? We become these exalted creatures that live in these special quiet places that don't have any kind of reality to them, really.
We are supposed to show God's love, patience, and kindness even in the middle of madness. Who is going to look at a religious hermit and say, "wow, very powerful stuff?" They aren't interacting with the madness as others have to do on a daily basis. Those that do live in the "REAL WORLD" and still keep their wits and kindness about them, now THAT is a TESTIMONY to God's power and love vs. the worlds power and "love."
We have to have the interaction. We are supposed to keep our mind and spirit separate, that much is true, but physically we should be out and about, showing people what and who God is and how He works. We are supposed to be servants, as Christ was, to the people.
If we have to have PEACE and QUIET at all times, what does that show, anyway? Nothing much. We don't actually get closer to God until we have those experiences with ALL those other humans out there. Getting our hands messy.
Sometimes, the prophets of old had to wander. They had a specific job to do, and it took a lot of time and energy; they kept themselves away from the people for a purpose. I find that helpful for myself, as well. I needed to separate from the noise of humanity for various reasons that I don't really want to go into here, but it should never become a way of life. Where is the SALT, then? What purpose does it have. To FLAVOR.
But, what if you had no choice?...Would Christ be enough for you?...
I agree but I know her stance is the opposite of what I believe. The history of the battle goes back centuries. I would say most churches are more in line with her beliefs than churches that are not, so finding a home should be easy.
I don’t think church is the right place to battle over legalism vs. grace.
Health starts in the body...if the body is sick then it is useless and will die...Look what Christ did in the Synagogue...He did not get kicked out...He kicked them out of His Father's House...
I used to believe like you then I found the saving Grace of Jesus. Sorry, I am not a legalist.
Hilgi, did you read the entire post? Do you understand what legalism is? Legalism is the belief that keeping the Law is what saves you. No human being ever has or ever will be saved, thinking that they are saved by their law keeping. I could live the next 50 years without ever breaking a single one of the 10 commandments and I still wouldn't be worthy of salvation. I am realizing, after researching this whole UR movement that many Christians are forgetting an extremely important aspect about the relationship God seeks to have with us. God wants our love for Him to be our CHOICE. Calvary's Cross gave every human being the opportunity to accept God's free gift of Salvation, but God will not save anyone against their will. From cradle to the grave, a persons life is about what choices they make. For God or against God. Once a person makes the choice for Christ, God doesn't strip them of their free will, for then their love isn't sincere. God says "good, you have stated that you love Me, now live that you love Me" that is not to say that we earn our salvation, but this plan of salvation is a cooperative process, Why do you think God asks us to go spread the Gospel? God could part the clouds and explain the Gospel to every human on earth in their native tongue, and in a way that they would be sure to understand it, but He doesn't do that. Why? Because His plan of salvation is so much deeper than that. It is about individual choice and free will.
Hilgi, words cannot describe what Christ's saving GRACE means to me. His saving grace is the reason I strive to be obedient to ALL He asks of me. I don't keep HIS law in order to be saved, I am obedient to HIS law because He saved me. I owe Him everything I have. Who am I to question a God who gave up everything for me on Calvary? If God sets aside one day a week and asks me to keep HIS day holy, who am I to question Him or ask if He is serious about the "specific day" being "all that important". If people want to call me a LEGALIST, because I choose to obey the God who sacrificed everything for me on Calvary, then they need to do some better research on what legalism really means. If I remember correctly Christ Himself said "if you love Me, keep my commandments." The Pharisees kept the law better than anyone in their day but they did it for their own egos, had they kept it out of love for Christ then they would have had completely different attitudes and you would have seen the love of Christ flowing through them. What is it about the 10 commandments that is so "burdensome" anyway? why would any Christian have a "problem" with keeping them? Why would any of them EVER be "done away with"? Read them again, they are full of nothing but God's unfailing love towards us. Yes even the 4th one that says HE specified a day that was special, and set it aside for us to remember HIS creative power. Why on earth do we even have 7 days in a week?
My fellow Christians, Satan is bent on our destruction and he is a master con artist forever trying to counterfeit the things of God. "the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God", what do you think Satan's counterfeit to that is?
But, what if you had no choice?...Would Christ be enough for you?...
No choice? Like I was forced to sit in the forest by myself or something? Then, yes, of course.
Or do you mean without a church building to walk into? Because I don't go to a building on Sunday so, yes, Christ is enough for me, but human interaction is nice, also.
If we all have the ability to walk righteous as Christians then we always had it...then my question is what was the need for Christ on the Cross?...If ones Salvation is not secure then it is all meaningless...
Richard, we have never had the ability on our own accord to walk righteously. The purpose of the Cross is clear, to give mankind a choice. This whole mess called sin started in the Garden of Eden where mankind was given a tree and a choice. Well we all know how that turned out. A/E were created perfect yet they chose imperfection. Well, 4000 years later Christ gave us another tree and another CHOICE. Every person born on earth since Eden has been born into imperfection, yet this second tree gives us the Choice of perfection. Christ's death on the cross did not automatically save every human being to ever live, in the way that many Christians view it today. Christ's death on the cross meant that any human being who has ever lived has the option of Salvation if they so desire to accept that free gift. Christ says "behold I stand at the door and knock" He doesn't kick the door down shackle you to his arm, and drag you to heaven.
In the story about the hiker, the Ranger saved the hiker from the mud, but for the hiker to truly be safe what did he have to do? Follow the Ranger! Always keep his eyes on the Ranger. The very moment the hiker started thinking "hey this is pretty cool, I'm walkin out of here on my own two feet, I know this trail this looks familiar" he would have looked up and not realized that his focus turned to himself and he lost sight of the Ranger, and all of a sudden he would have been lost again. But just like Peter, when he was sinking into the water, all the hiker would need to do is call out to the Ranger and He would be right there to help the hiker get his focus back on the Him. Calvary was what gave the Ranger the ability to lead the hiker out of the park. Without Calvary there wouldn't even be a Ranger, and every hiker would have been lost. The only way that any human being ever walks "righteously" is because they are following Christ, meaning it is his power that is giving them the strength. The moment they take their eyes off of Him they will start to sink in the water just like Peter.
He would stretch out his arms (like Jesus on the cross) and proclaim to everyone in the church, "You were saved 2000 years ago!"..."Right?"...and they (everyone...even those who have never received Jesus into their heart!) would yell out, "Right!"...
He would say, "If you don't tithe, you don't love God!"
He would say, "if you don't tithe, you're robbing God!"
He would say, "There's no way anyone can keep the Ten Commandments!"
......just try doing both of these ^^^\/ \/ \/ at the same time...
He would say, "You can't expect to get to heaven if your lukewarm!..God will spew you out of His mouth!"
...is it any wonder so many are so confused...?
He would point out people (with his finger) and call them out by name, and embarrass them into coming up to the alter to be "born again!"......huh?
He would say, "The Ten Commandments were hung on the cross with Jesus!"
He would say, "We changed the day of worship to Sunday because that is when Jesus was raised from the dead!"...(I don't think so!)...
...and of course from there...there is just so much more false doctrine that it snowballs into...it's just wrong.
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Can not rep you as I am in "rep jail" (How someone else puts it - I like how that sounds)
...but there just comes a time when you know...when you finally realize, that you have to let go of even the good when it is mixed with bad...when the bad hinders your growth. There was a lot of manipulation and control...and lies. I know God will give me a new song...in a new season.
...good people keep leaving)...from the very young to the very old we join hands...no one has to pray if they do not want to..so the one's who do have a prayer on their heart, do. I am one of about 6 people who always have a prayer for my church...for the pastor and his wife...and for the people and their needs...
...they hardly ever pray...they are very shy...there have been a few who do, once in a great while, give a very timid prayer....but it is so precious...I encourage them when they do...but it isn't often.
......just try doing both of these ^^^\/ \/ \/ at the same time...
