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Old 04-21-2010, 08:08 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,399,036 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Shawn_2828 View Post
Well, Verna I am happy that you are happy in your decision. Honestly, it sounds like maybe there was a bit of confusion or a misunderstanding. I don't know her motive but it sounds like she just wanted the youth to pray more. It sounds like there were only the same people praying over and over and maybe she just wanted to encourage others to get involved including the youth.

She should have had a meeting or something and explained herself better. I would have never asked you to not pray, but I would have atleast tried to balance out where the youth had time to pray over the ones who normally prayed.

At my church there are some youth who are shy and act the same. We don't tell the people not to pray, we just wait patiently on the youth to say something. We help them along.

So, this is just my opinion, but it sounds like it was just a misunderstanding and she should have found a better way to speak to you about the matter. It doesn't sound like the women meant to do what she did to hurt you. Sometime people mean well, but don't come off well.
Like I said in one of my earlier posts, this was the straw that broke the camel's back...this lady was all about control and manipulation...and here was just one more attempt to control now, the prayers!...ugh! ...precious prayers...that should be a natural source of communication between you and God...she just couldn't leave anything just alone!...nothing. I couldn't take anymore.
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Old 04-21-2010, 08:08 PM
 
Location: US
27,800 posts, read 14,928,488 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HalfNelson View Post
Hilgi, did you read the entire post? Do you understand what legalism is? Legalism is the belief that keeping the Law is what saves you. No human being ever has or ever will be saved, thinking that they are saved by their law keeping. I could live the next 50 years without ever breaking a single one of the 10 commandments and I still wouldn't be worthy of salvation. I am realizing, after researching this whole UR movement that many Christians are forgetting an extremely important aspect about the relationship God seeks to have with us. God wants our love for Him to be our CHOICE. Calvary's Cross gave every human being the opportunity to accept God's free gift of Salvation, but God will not save anyone against their will. From cradle to the grave, a persons life is about what choices they make. For God or against God. Once a person makes the choice for Christ, God doesn't strip them of their free will, for then their love isn't sincere. God says "good, you have stated that you love Me, now live that you love Me" that is not to say that we earn our salvation, but this plan of salvation is a cooperative process, Why do you think God asks us to go spread the Gospel? God could part the clouds and explain the Gospel to every human on earth in their native tongue, and in a way that they would be sure to understand it, but He doesn't do that. Why? Because His plan of salvation is so much deeper than that. It is about individual choice and free will.

Hilgi, words cannot describe what Christ's saving GRACE means to me. His saving grace is the reason I strive to be obedient to ALL He asks of me. I don't keep HIS law in order to be saved, I am obedient to HIS law because He saved me. I owe Him everything I have. Who am I to question a God who gave up everything for me on Calvary? If God sets aside one day a week and asks me to keep HIS day holy, who am I to question Him or ask if He is serious about the "specific day" being "all that important". If people want to call me a LEGALIST, because I choose to obey the God who sacrificed everything for me on Calvary, then they need to do some better research on what legalism really means. If I remember correctly Christ Himself said "if you love Me, keep my commandments." The Pharisees kept the law better than anyone in their day but they did it for their own egos, had they kept it out of love for Christ then they would have had completely different attitudes and you would have seen the love of Christ flowing through them. What is it about the 10 commandments that is so "burdensome" anyway? why would any Christian have a "problem" with keeping them? Why would any of them EVER be "done away with"? Read them again, they are full of nothing but God's unfailing love towards us. Yes even the 4th one that says HE specified a day that was special, and set it aside for us to remember HIS creative power. Why on earth do we even have 7 days in a week?

My fellow Christians, Satan is bent on our destruction and he is a master con artist forever trying to counterfeit the things of God. "the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God", what do you think Satan's counterfeit to that is?
Then neither was Christ worthy...Christ said each one holds one day above another...let each one be convinced in His own mind...that was in response to a question of whether the sabbath should be kept or not...you seem to be set on one thing and Satan has you so obsessed with it that that seems to be the most important to you...and your knowledge is way off on what the Pharisee did...you seem to be getting your information from some one elses book besides the bible...and don't lie to me...i have read far to many 'books of opinions' not to be able to recognize it when i see it...How can you make a choice to love God when God Himself says we are at emnity with Him, we are born into the natural man and that natural man hates God....we are dead in sin and cannot comprehend what is spiritual neither do we have a desire to do so...and you are going to say that He wants us to choose Him?...How???...You have a long way to go in your studies if in fact you are a true Christian and not just a hanger-on...
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Old 04-21-2010, 08:13 PM
 
Location: US
27,800 posts, read 14,928,488 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
No choice? Like I was forced to sit in the forest by myself or something? Then, yes, of course.

Or do you mean without a church building to walk into? Because I don't go to a building on Sunday so, yes, Christ is enough for me, but human interaction is nice, also.
I met a man that had been thrown into a pit full of cold waste...he was there a long time...at least two years, i think...when told that he must have been very lonely...he said i had no bible...but, what i had read, God was gracious in helping me bring it to memory and that is what i meditated on all that time and talked with my Savior...and laughed with Him...and worshiped Him...so, you see, i was never alone....It is easy to say that Christ would be enough...but, when put to the test...
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Old 04-21-2010, 08:26 PM
 
Location: US
27,800 posts, read 14,928,488 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HalfNelson View Post
Richard, we have never had the ability on our own accord to walk righteously. The purpose of the Cross is clear, to give mankind a choice. This whole mess called sin started in the Garden of Eden where mankind was given a tree and a choice. Well we all know how that turned out. A/E were created perfect yet they chose imperfection. Well, 4000 years later Christ gave us another tree and another CHOICE. Every person born on earth since Eden has been born into imperfection, yet this second tree gives us the Choice of perfection. Christ's death on the cross did not automatically save every human being to ever live, in the way that many Christians view it today. Christ's death on the cross meant that any human being who has ever lived has the option of Salvation if they so desire to accept that free gift. Christ says "behold I stand at the door and knock" He doesn't kick the door down shackle you to his arm, and drag you to heaven.

In the story about the hiker, the Ranger saved the hiker from the mud, but for the hiker to truly be safe what did he have to do? Follow the Ranger! Always keep his eyes on the Ranger. The very moment the hiker started thinking "hey this is pretty cool, I'm walkin out of here on my own two feet, I know this trail this looks familiar" he would have looked up and not realized that his focus turned to himself and he lost sight of the Ranger, and all of a sudden he would have been lost again. But just like Peter, when he was sinking into the water, all the hiker would need to do is call out to the Ranger and He would be right there to help the hiker get his focus back on the Him. Calvary was what gave the Ranger the ability to lead the hiker out of the park. Without Calvary there wouldn't even be a Ranger, and every hiker would have been lost. The only way that any human being ever walks "righteously" is because they are following Christ, meaning it is his power that is giving them the strength. The moment they take their eyes off of Him they will start to sink in the water just like Peter.
My God...so many of you put things of God in such humanistic terms...the scripture is so obvious yet so many are blind to the Truth...boiling the truth down to an Anecdote...Unless God through his Grace regenerates your spirit there is no way that you can believe the Gospel...so, it is not by your choice it is by God's Sovreign Choice that you are quickened...if we say we do not sin then we call God a liar and the Truth is not in us...you are obviously a Seventh Day Adventist...If the tree starts out sick and in bad soil then it will not grow and will get sicker and wither away...
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Old 04-21-2010, 09:24 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,479,294 times
Reputation: 438
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
I met a man that had been thrown into a pit full of cold waste...he was there a long time...at least two years, i think...when told that he must have been very lonely...he said i had no bible...but, what i had read, God was gracious in helping me bring it to memory and that is what i meditated on all that time and talked with my Savior...and laughed with Him...and worshiped Him...so, you see, i was never alone....It is easy to say that Christ would be enough...but, when put to the test...

I use a lot of humor in my posts, as much as I can muster, because if I didn't, the real ME might seep through, and that is a sad me.

So, do I understand what it is to be tested for MANY years, stay sane, and still keep my faith? Yes, but barely.

What in the HELL is going on? I don't know. If God is good, and He loves everybody, why in the world does He let such gruesome, horrible things happen to children. Why does He allow a lot of things? I really don't know.

I've read Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, I've read stories of people that made it through the Holocaust and diaries of people that didn't, and I know what goes on out there from personal experience. I think that there are a whole lot of people out there smiling, trying to make it through their day when they really just want to end it. And they last MANY years under some terrible stress and strain.

What I am really sick and tired of is people that say, "oh, it can't be that bad, we are AMERICANS, or whatever (from what I can see, from your "About Me" section, you are in Germany). What difference does that make, for Pete's sake. America, the WORLD, is a twisted place, no matter where you are. And there are a lot of things that go on around this country (America) that aren't very peachy. And there is a LOT of spiritual darkness and confusion in this country. I'll leave it at that, for now.

I once traveled to Brazil, and the only thing I wanted to do was stay there. In the jungle. Just disappear. But I came back. And I don't want to hear anymore about how Americans are blessed, and how they are the LIGHT. They are in the dark, and from what I can tell, they always have been. Just because there is wealth doesn't mean a damn thing. In fact, I think we have a problem, Houston.

The more I study, the clearer it gets, to me. And I am thinking that the Universalists are a lot closer to the truth than you might think, because MANY Christians are still in the dark about what is going on, and from what I can tell haven't come close to figuring it out. Maybe this includes you. So, I would be careful about thinking you have it all figured out.

But, is Christ enough? The answer is, yes.

( I am sorry for getting off topic, Verna. This is my last post here.)

Last edited by herefornow; 04-21-2010 at 09:47 PM..
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Old 04-21-2010, 09:51 PM
 
701 posts, read 675,627 times
Reputation: 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Then neither was Christ worthy...Christ said each one holds one day above another...let each one be convinced in His own mind...that was in response to a question of whether the sabbath should be kept or not...you seem to be set on one thing and Satan has you so obsessed with it that that seems to be the most important to you...and your knowledge is way off on what the Pharisee did...you seem to be getting your information from some one elses book besides the bible...and don't lie to me...i have read far to many 'books of opinions' not to be able to recognize it when i see it...How can you make a choice to love God when God Himself says we are at emnity with Him, we are born into the natural man and that natural man hates God....we are dead in sin and cannot comprehend what is spiritual neither do we have a desire to do so...and you are going to say that He wants us to choose Him?...How???...You have a long way to go in your studies if in fact you are a true Christian and not just a hanger-on...
So, are you saying that we don't have free will?
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Old 04-21-2010, 09:56 PM
 
701 posts, read 675,627 times
Reputation: 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
My God...so many of you put things of God in such humanistic terms...the scripture is so obvious yet so many are blind to the Truth...boiling the truth down to an Anecdote...Unless God through his Grace regenerates your spirit there is no way that you can believe the Gospel...so, it is not by your choice it is by God's Sovreign Choice that you are quickened...if we say we do not sin then we call God a liar and the Truth is not in us...you are obviously a Seventh Day Adventist...If the tree starts out sick and in bad soil then it will not grow and will get sicker and wither away...
Have I ever said that I don't sin? I agree that spiritual things are spiritually understood, but that doesn't mean that the decision to act is not ours. Yes God instills in us the notion to follow Him just as Satan tries to convince us to follow him, but the choice is ultimately ours. BTW....might I inquire what you think I'm lying to you about and what book you are assuming I am getting my thoughts from?
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Old 04-21-2010, 10:45 PM
 
39,656 posts, read 26,548,534 times
Reputation: 6019
Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
What in the HELL is going on? I don't know. If God is good, and He loves everybody, why in the world does He let such gruesome, horrible things happen to children. Why does He allow a lot of things? I really don't know.
Three words herefornow . . . Dominion and Free Will. God doesn't lie . . . it's all up to us here on earth. We are to overcome and endure to the end.
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Old 04-22-2010, 12:50 AM
 
Location: South Jordan, Utah
6,794 posts, read 7,339,272 times
Reputation: 2935
Quote:
Originally Posted by HalfNelson View Post
Hilgi, did you read the entire post? Do you understand what legalism is? Legalism is the belief that keeping the Law is what saves you. No human being ever has or ever will be saved, thinking that they are saved by their law keeping. I could live the next 50 years without ever breaking a single one of the 10 commandments and I still wouldn't be worthy of salvation. I am realizing, after researching this whole UR movement that many Christians are forgetting an extremely important aspect about the relationship God seeks to have with us. God wants our love for Him to be our CHOICE. Calvary's Cross gave every human being the opportunity to accept God's free gift of Salvation, but God will not save anyone against their will. From cradle to the grave, a persons life is about what choices they make. For God or against God. Once a person makes the choice for Christ, God doesn't strip them of their free will, for then their love isn't sincere. God says "good, you have stated that you love Me, now live that you love Me" that is not to say that we earn our salvation, but this plan of salvation is a cooperative process, Why do you think God asks us to go spread the Gospel? God could part the clouds and explain the Gospel to every human on earth in their native tongue, and in a way that they would be sure to understand it, but He doesn't do that. Why? Because His plan of salvation is so much deeper than that. It is about individual choice and free will.

Hilgi, words cannot describe what Christ's saving GRACE means to me. His saving grace is the reason I strive to be obedient to ALL He asks of me. I don't keep HIS law in order to be saved, I am obedient to HIS law because He saved me. I owe Him everything I have. Who am I to question a God who gave up everything for me on Calvary? If God sets aside one day a week and asks me to keep HIS day holy, who am I to question Him or ask if He is serious about the "specific day" being "all that important". If people want to call me a LEGALIST, because I choose to obey the God who sacrificed everything for me on Calvary, then they need to do some better research on what legalism really means. If I remember correctly Christ Himself said "if you love Me, keep my commandments." The Pharisees kept the law better than anyone in their day but they did it for their own egos, had they kept it out of love for Christ then they would have had completely different attitudes and you would have seen the love of Christ flowing through them. What is it about the 10 commandments that is so "burdensome" anyway? why would any Christian have a "problem" with keeping them? Why would any of them EVER be "done away with"? Read them again, they are full of nothing but God's unfailing love towards us. Yes even the 4th one that says HE specified a day that was special, and set it aside for us to remember HIS creative power. Why on earth do we even have 7 days in a week?

My fellow Christians, Satan is bent on our destruction and he is a master con artist forever trying to counterfeit the things of God. "the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God", what do you think Satan's counterfeit to that is?
The way you first worded it you sounded like we have to work hard in order for Christ to save us. I still don't agree with a lot of what you write, I am more of a Calvinist (not hardcore). I think God draws us and chooses us first, now I don't know if he draws all and only some believe but I don't think we are making a choice without being drawn.

If you are going to follow the law you need to follow all 613 laws, not just the top 10.

I prefer to focus on what Jesus said the law is, Love God and love your neighbor. I donít think and focus on individual sins; I really doubt God is keeping a checklist about what sins we commit in our hearts etc. We are free in Christ and God seeís Christ on the cross covering our sins.
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Old 04-22-2010, 01:01 AM
 
Location: South Jordan, Utah
6,794 posts, read 7,339,272 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
Greetings Miss Shawn.

He would stretch out his arms (like Jesus on the cross) and proclaim to everyone in the church, "You were saved 2000 years ago!"..."Right?"...and they (everyone...even those who have never received Jesus into their heart!) would yell out, "Right!"...

He would say, "If you don't tithe, you don't love God!"

He would say, "if you don't tithe, you're robbing God!"

He would say, "There's no way anyone can keep the Ten Commandments!"

......just try doing both of these ^^^\/ \/ \/ at the same time...

He would say, "You can't expect to get to heaven if your lukewarm!..God will spew you out of His mouth!"

...is it any wonder so many are so confused...?

He would point out people (with his finger) and call them out by name, and embarrass them into coming up to the alter to be "born again!"......huh?

He would say, "The Ten Commandments were hung on the cross with Jesus!"

He would say, "We changed the day of worship to Sunday because that is when Jesus was raised from the dead!"...(I don't think so!)...

...and of course from there...there is just so much more false doctrine that it snowballs into...it's just wrong.
I must say that no matter what a persons theology is that is not a good church. I hope you find a good church.

Some of his stuff I agree with the the rest, nope.

I agree with:

He would say, "There's no way anyone can keep the Ten Commandments!"

He would say, "The Ten Commandments were hung on the cross with Jesus
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