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Old 04-21-2010, 04:54 PM
 
3,591 posts, read 467,310 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Well, go on and prove it on the other thread then. You are off topic, and your posts ought to be deleted.
Topic is
Quote:
For those who want to post why they do not believe in UR and for any UR's who want to debate with them........
And since I started to thread anyone who wants to post scripture to support ET go right ahead (you will still be no topic as long as you do not go against the TOS which state attack the idea not the person), and any that want to post scripture to support, debate UR go ahead
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Old 04-21-2010, 05:07 PM
 
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In Genesis 1:3-4 ....`` and God said Let there be Light and there was light...... and God saw the light and it was good and God separated light from darkness``....... This is where God chose his purpose which is the Light, because the light was good and darkness was not good..........As the result darkness is not a attribute of the Lord God..... When Adam was created he was created in the image of God which is the Goodness of the Light...... but he sinned against the Lord Word and the Lord God said to Adam`` Who told you, you where naked``.... and Adam lost the authorty over the earth the Lord God gave Adam and gave that authority to the devil and demons of the rebellous one who told Adam``You are naked``. these devil and demons and fallen angels where in darkness separated from God, because God separated himself in the light and out of the darkness........ So here is the Lord God lost his earth to darkness and the devil can destroy the earth at his will, to get a hand in the earth the Lord God created the abyss where he could regulate the devil in the earth and get him out to the bound of sin.. Like a Noah.Ark the devil lost countless demons and fallen angels into the abyss...... So when men reject the light with the Lord God then their spirits are sent to the abyss at their departure of their passing because there is not other purpose for the lost...... The letter of the Word of God may not see this truth......
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Old 04-21-2010, 05:12 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,392,961 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
<ET_MODE>

That's just your "non-ET" view. We all know sheol/hades is the bad compartment of "hell" where the sinners will be punished while they are awaiting the final judgment to be thrown into the lake of fire. Gehenna is referring to the lake of fire where all those not in the book of life will be tormented forever along with Satan and his minions.

Regarding point #2, sure Jesus may have only talked about the specific word "hell" a few times, but certainly He did talk about undying worms and unquenchable fire, as well as a furnace of fire where people gnash their teeth. Hell is real man, you are going to go there if you don't believe - you will be gnashing your teeth along with all the worms.

Hell is real because Jesus said its better to cut out your eye or cut off your arm than to end up in hell. I know its not pretty, but thats what the bible says so it is the truth.

</ET_MODE>
Sigh......

(For those that take what he just said to be truth, check this link on how those scriptures CANNOT possibly be talking about a literal hades/bosom compartment for the dead, if you believe that the good and bad are separated immediately after death) All about Sheol and hell

WHY in the world would these people from the Old Testament, Job included, want to go to hell to get away from God, which is what the Old Testament verses say (when they use Hell for Sheol) if these are actual physical places.
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Old 04-21-2010, 05:18 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,220,482 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
The "Eternal Tormenters" (what a disrespectful name) don't have to prove anything, because the proof is in the Bible, and it has been pointed out to you eight million times.
"ET" is found in the English and Latin mistranslations of the original Hebrew and Greek scriptures. It is not to be found in the original Greek and Hebrew scriptures themselves ...

"Eternal Tormentors" rely on pagan traditions of men which infiltrated the church and took control of orthodox doctrine hundreds of years after Christ and the apostles walked the earth. Universal reconciliation was the original Gospel believed and taught by the vast majority of early Greek Christians throughout the east(Asia Minor) in the first four centuries CE. ... And that's a FACT jack!
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Old 04-21-2010, 06:04 PM
 
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Posted by Finn_Jarber:


Finn, in your view of God, is He more loving and merciful, or less loving and merciful than this guy? IMO, burning someone forever while they remained conscious, would be much worse than this.
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Old 04-21-2010, 06:21 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,712 posts, read 32,154,825 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
Posted by Finn_Jarber:


Finn, in your view of God, is He more loving and merciful, or less loving and merciful than this guy? IMO, burning someone forever while they remained conscious, would be much worse than this.
He is what the Bible says he is, and those who can't accept it start new religions and cults such as UR to support their own views.

In the other hand this guys is pretty bad, because he can go on all day and night. Just check him tomorrow, and he's still at it.

Romans 1:18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
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Old 04-21-2010, 06:47 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
The "Eternal Tormenters" (what a disrespectful name) don't have to prove anything, because the proof is in the Bible, and it has been pointed out to you eight million times.
I didn't say "Eternal Tormenters". I said "ETers". It is simply an abbreviation for someone who believes in ET, just as URer is an abbreviation for someone who believes in UR. I'm sorry you took it as a disrepectful name. Its simply shorter to type than "believer in ET".

I didn't ask you to prove anything. I asked you to explain, given God being all-powerful and all-loving, how He can purpose or allow people to be tormented forever. It is a contradiction.

Surely it is not loving to allow or purpose eternal torment when you have the power to stop it.

So do you believe God doesn't have the power to stop it? Or that He doesn't really love everyone? If Hitler is burning in hell right now, does God love him?
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Old 04-21-2010, 06:50 PM
 
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BTW the answer given in the bible is that God is powerful enough to save all people, God wants to save all people, and God will save all people. That is the proof you will find if you are open to see it and open to understanding that some English versions of the bible have mistranslations involving the words "eternal", "forever", and "hell".
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Old 04-21-2010, 06:53 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,726,519 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
He is what the Bible says he is, and those who can't accept it start new religions and cults such as UR to support their own views.

In the other hand this guys is pretty bad, because he can go on all day and night. Just check him tomorrow, and he's still at it.

Romans 1:18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
You didn't answer my question about who you think is more loving and merciful.

It's interesting that in the verse you quoted Paul is talking about those who knew God, and it says that they deserve death, not eternal torture. Here's the rest of that chapter:
21For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.

24Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. 28Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. 29They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.
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Old 04-21-2010, 06:57 PM
 
3,591 posts, read 467,310 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
It's interesting that in the verse you quoted Paul is talking about those who knew God, and it says that they deserve death, not eternal torture. Here's the rest of that chapter:
21For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.

24Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. 28Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. 29They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.
To me this always reminds me of the Jews/Israelites - they had the oracles of God and were is chosen people (they knew him) and they rebelled and followed their darkened hearts and in 70AD were dispossessed of their inheritance.
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