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Old 04-22-2010, 08:47 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,282 posts, read 20,911,116 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
The options are simple:
  1. Believe God and Jesus made you perfect (by faith in believing the message "Christ crucified")
  2. Reject God and Jesus and do it yourself....and fail
Thank you for your input, twin. Of course, you realize that we don't all see it this way, but since this is not a debate thread, and we've all expressed our point of view, is there really anything to be gained by repeating ourselves over and over again, in the hopes that we're going to change anybody's mind? I think not.
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Old 04-22-2010, 08:47 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,722,808 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
And God required it when he said
"You are to be my holy people"

Exodus 22:31
"You are to be my holy people

Deuteronomy 7:6
For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

Isaiah 62:12
And they shall call them, The holy people, The redeemed of the LORD:
Hopefully this is not turning into a debate. I'll just stick to the facts:

All these verses referred to the Jews, and none of these verses talk about a requirement. They are statements: thou art; you are; shall call them.....
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Old 04-22-2010, 09:18 PM
Status: "Build the damn wall!" (set 14 days ago)
 
Location: The Haunted Mansion
15,225 posts, read 8,250,739 times
Reputation: 1547
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
jimmiez, if baptism has no saving power, why is it important in your opinion?
Because it makes "public" our faith in Christ.

Matthew 10

32"Whoever acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge him before my Father in heaven. 33But whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven.
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Old 04-22-2010, 09:35 PM
 
5,739 posts, read 4,588,492 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilene Wright View Post
Ok, here's what I believe. It's all unraveling at the moment, but there are certain things that will always be part of my belief. I believe Jesus Christ is the only way to salvation. I now believe that loving God and one another are forefront among anything that follows Jesus Christ. Jesus is first, loving God and one another is part of that. As far as doctrine, that's what has been turned upside down lately. I still believe that we are living in the end times and I still believe in a Rapture, but all of that has become secondary as of late.

The Holy Spirit has been showing me things that my eyes were blinded to before. Also, my heart. The disagreements between us all here at the forum have also become, well, secondary. It's just not important. Instead of judging and wanting to "correct" everyone, I want to hear why they believe like they do and I want to show them more love. That can only be the Holy Spirit. And because of this change I also have been rethinking what hell is all about.

ET doesn't make sense AT ALL to me anymore....actually it never did make sense. Why would our loving God destroy most of His creation? Yes, I fear God and His magnificence but I also know that He is full of the kind of love that we just can't begin to understand. A love that encompasses everything, if we could just connect to that in the smallest way then our lives here will be so much more precious and love-filled towards our fellow man. I've never been able to "feel" that towards others like I should have, but now I am beginning to and I like it!! Wow, how different people can look when you look at them through love and not contempt!!

I've experienced a transformation....again.....lately and I'm still in search of answers. I don't claim to have all of them like I did before. I think I'm going to have to change my moniker from "Warrior Princess" to "Wandering Princess"??!!

A special thanks to the universalists who have been most gracious and loving during my question and answer session.

I just can't tell you how much your words have made my heart smile. What a beautiful, heartfelt post. And the bold... I can feel what you wrote, all the way down to my bones. I mean that. Thank you, Ilene for sharing your journeying with us.
I love you much,
sparrow
P.S. Maybe you are the Wandering Warrior Princess. Has a nice ring to it.
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Old 04-22-2010, 10:19 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,825 posts, read 9,825,065 times
Reputation: 1302
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
Hopefully this is not turning into a debate. I'll just stick to the facts:

All these verses referred to the Jews, and none of these verses talk about a requirement. They are statements: thou art; you are; shall call them.....
I was just stating the truths found in God's Word. I believe it because God's Word says it. It wasn't only for the Jews, but for believers.
God's people are holy. No "unclean", non righteous (holy, perfect) human can or will stand before a Holy and Perfect God

Colossians 3:12
Therefore, as God's chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience.


1 Peter 2:9
But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.

Talking about the requirement for being Holy:
Isaiah 35:8-10

And a highway will be there;
it will be called the Way of Holiness.
The unclean will not journey on it;
it will be for those who walk in that Way;
wicked fools will not go about on it.

No lion will be there,
nor will any ferocious beast get up on it;
they will not be found there.
But only the redeemed will walk there,

and the ransomed of the LORD will return.
They will enter Zion with singing;
everlasting joy will crown their heads.
Gladness and joy will overtake them,
and sorrow and sighing will flee away.
_________________________________________

This is what God's Word says, and because I love the Bible and Christ and God..I believe it.
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Old 04-22-2010, 10:22 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,282 posts, read 20,911,116 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
Because it makes "public" our faith in Christ.

Matthew 10

32"Whoever acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge him before my Father in heaven. 33But whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven.
Okay, well I disagree, but thanks for explaining. I always thought it was for the remission of sins.

I keep coming back and adding comments to this post. (Sorry everybody. I hope nobody quotes me till I'm done!) Are you saying that we are to be baptized so that everyone who witnesses the event will know that we have faith? Now that you've gone that far, though, can you point me to any verses in the Bible where baptism is described as having this as its purpose? I'm not aware of any, but I manage to learn something new almost every day.

Last edited by Katzpur; 04-22-2010 at 10:32 PM..
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Old 04-22-2010, 10:45 PM
 
Location: PA
45 posts, read 39,939 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
No, once the Last Judgment has taken place, things will be pretty much fixed. (That's why it's the Last Judgment. Since entrance into each of the three kingdoms is determined by worthiness, entrance into the Celestial Kingdom by someone who had been in a lower kingdom would have to be preceded by another judgment, which would make the Last Judgement not be the last judgment after all. ) There is, as I understand it, supposed to be progression within each heavenly kingdom, but not between them. I think that might bother me if I believed we went to Heaven immediately after death, but I don't. As you know, I believe we will reside in the Spirit World for a long, long time after we die, at which time the playing field will be leveled. All of the cultural, political, etc. baggage we carry around with us, that can make it difficult for us to grasp certain spiritual truths will be removed at that time, so it definitely won't be a case of someone not having had sufficient opportunity to learn and accept the gospel completely. It will really just get down to how obedient we are to our Father in Heaven's commandments, and that will already be determined by Judgment Day. If a person really wanted to enter the Celestial Kingdom, it's not something he'd decide he wanted to do after a few millenia in Heaven. He would have made the choice either during mortality or during the time spent in the Spirit World that He simply wasn't intersted in the level of commitment required.
I'm curious what you make of Rev. 21:25. Sorry for jumping in late. I was gone a while and then lots of reading to catch up on.

BTW: that's twice I've been in these forums and someone mentioned bacon.....cut it out! I don't have any in the house, so now I want some! LOL!
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Old 04-22-2010, 10:56 PM
 
Location: Up above the world so high!
45,270 posts, read 86,160,580 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
I's like to ask a couple of questions of someone who believes in the trinity.

1. Is the trinity closed? By that I mean-- when you are in heaven and one with God, for the sake of the question I'm trying to ask, would the first human to become one with God be number 4.

2. What Scripture says God the Son and God the Holy Spirit / Ghost?
By the very definition of the word "Trinity" there can be only 3 parts So no, people in heaven don't become God.

Isaiah 48:16 Come near unto Me, hear this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord God, and His Spirit, hath sent Me.”

Or how about Matthew 3:17, where you have Jesus being baptized, the Spirit descending like a dove and the Father’s voice saying, “This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” All of them there, all of them present at the same time at the same scene.

Last edited by lovesMountains; 04-22-2010 at 11:06 PM..
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Old 04-22-2010, 11:01 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,282 posts, read 20,911,116 times
Reputation: 9965
Quote:
Originally Posted by bellamamma View Post
I'm curious what you make of Rev. 21:25. Sorry for jumping in late. I was gone a while and then lots of reading to catch up on.
Revelation 21:25 (so that people won't have to look it up) says, "And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there." I see this as referring to the peace and security of Heaven (i.e no need for closed gates) and to the glory of God (i.e. everlasting light with no darkness). How about you?

And who mentioned bacon?!?
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Old 04-22-2010, 11:22 PM
 
Location: PA
45 posts, read 39,939 times
Reputation: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
Revelation 21:25 (so that people won't have to look it up) says, "And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there." I see this as referring to the peace and security of Heaven (i.e no need for closed gates) and to the glory of God (i.e. everlasting light with no darkness). How about you?

And who mentioned bacon?!?
Hmmm.....I see. I love to hear other interpretations....whether they be what I agree with or not, not that I disagree with this. I guess I've always taken it kind of literally, that the gates of Heaven will never be shut, just as it says, because there will be no night......kind of like you have to lock your doors at night cuz that's when a thief will most likely break in or some bad guy or whatever, but these gates won't have to be shut cuz there will be no bad that will come in. ????

I don't remember who it was that spoke of bacon, but they were talking about typing after eating bacon and the grease messing up their typing skills.....FUNNY! In another thread someone mentioned they hoped there was bacon in Heaven. I told them my son would be right there along with him cuz that's one of his favorite foods. HAHA! Making me hungry!
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