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Old 05-01-2010, 03:09 PM
 
309 posts, read 295,502 times
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Quote:
A little research will find the name calling and derogatory demeanor is mostly done by Eusebius.
All though I admit that Eusebius has been a little harsh in he demeanor towards some, but I also admit that it would be frustrating as well too for him to ask questions and get no answers except that we are liars. Eusebius's responses (and mine) are more or less centered around "Show us where we are lying". He answers ALL the questions that are put forth to him. Whether one believes his answers or not is NOT the issue here. The issue is that He (and again I) are asking questions, but are not being given the courtesy of even an answer to the question. My question has been 'ignored' still, and no one has answered it. Maybe Eusebius can give me an answer to it, but I'm willing to bet the scripture he supplies is what I call a "back-burner" verse that some cannot talk about, because either it knocks their theory down and dont want to get into the discussion about it, or they just dont understand what it means. So yes it is frustrating to me also, but I will not make fun of spelling, quotation marks, etc. But I am still not being given an answer though.

 
Old 05-01-2010, 03:18 PM
 
3,581 posts, read 458,427 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeallcomm View Post
All though I admit that Eusebius has been a little harsh in he demeanor towards some, but I also admit that it would be frustrating as well too for him to ask questions and get no answers except that we are liars. Eusebius's responses (and mine) are more or less centered around "Show us where we are lying". He answers ALL the questions that are put forth to him. Whether one believes his answers or not is NOT the issue here. The issue is that He (and again I) are asking questions, but are not being given the courtesy of even an answer to the question. My question has been 'ignored' still, and no one has answered it. Maybe Eusebius can give me an answer to it, but I'm willing to bet the scripture he supplies is what I call a "back-burner" verse that some cannot talk about, because either it knocks their theory down and dont want to get into the discussion about it, or they just dont understand what it means. So yes it is frustrating to me also, but I will not make fun of spelling, quotation marks, etc. But I am still not being given an answer though.
Do you mean Finn?
 
Old 05-01-2010, 03:26 PM
 
309 posts, read 295,502 times
Reputation: 60
Meerkat2..... Well mostly Finn when he stated...

Quote:
Ladies and gentlemen, what you are seeing here is a prime example of universalist bickering. When they realize they have lost the battle, they drop the topic entirely and start bickering about spelling errors, use of quotation marks or some other meaningless detail.
He is claiming that others are doing only what 'he' is doing. I have asked a question to prove my point and he has 'ignored it' and 'dropped the topic entirely' and 'changed the subject' once again. I dont blame him for being upset about being attacked with spelling and name calling, but to complain about it just for a way to get away from even answering the question is getting old, even to me.
 
Old 05-01-2010, 03:39 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,825 posts, read 9,828,269 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeallcomm View Post
All though I admit that Eusebius has been a little harsh in he demeanor towards some, but I also admit that it would be frustrating as well too for him to ask questions and get no answers except that we are liars. Eusebius's responses (and mine) are more or less centered around "Show us where we are lying". He answers ALL the questions that are put forth to him. Whether one believes his answers or not is NOT the issue here. The issue is that He (and again I) are asking questions, but are not being given the courtesy of even an answer to the question. My question has been 'ignored' still, and no one has answered it. Maybe Eusebius can give me an answer to it, but I'm willing to bet the scripture he supplies is what I call a "back-burner" verse that some cannot talk about, because either it knocks their theory down and dont want to get into the discussion about it, or they just dont understand what it means. So yes it is frustrating to me also, but I will not make fun of spelling, quotation marks, etc. But I am still not being given an answer though.
specifically, what is your question?
 
Old 05-01-2010, 03:41 PM
 
3,581 posts, read 458,427 times
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Joe,

I agree with you that he has had some unkind remarks directed at him, and he does direct unkind remarks to others.

Getting back to the topic ------>

These are Finns beliefs which are built around a temporary hades/sheol where there was a separation between believers/unbelievers I wonder if the split was Jews/gentiles??? were any gentiles saved?

Sheol/hades was emptied when Jesus rose and now a believer will go to be with God (even though there is scripture that says that David was not ascended after Jesus resurrection) and unbelievers go to hades still to await a final judgment where they get cast in the permanent lake of fire which is the literal fiery "hell"

Quote:
quotes by FinnHow does it explain the rich man was being refined into a new creature?

Pay attention to the ending of the parable: "He said to him, ‘If they don’t listen to Moses and the prophets,
neither will they be persuaded if one rises from the dead.’

The only way to stay out of that place, and worse, the lake of fire (permanent hell) is to listen and believe, but Abraham says many do not listen and believe. They won't listen even if they saw someone being raised form the dead.

"Faith comes from hearing the message." Rom 10:17 And Jesus said, "If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me. But since you do not believe what he wrote, how are you going to believe what I say?" John 5:46,47
Quote:
How can you claim "this is all they knew"? How would you know what other people knew? Considering how often Sheol is mentioned in OT I'd say they knew everything about it.

And even if they didn't know, then I suppose they found out as soon as they arrived there The rich man didn't know, but according to Abraham, that was only because he didn't listen to Moses and Prophets. See, Moses knew, and the prophets knew, so everyone knew. Happy?
Quote:
What makes you think there is a process of transformation in Hades? Where did you get that idea? That is all I am asking. What are the dead being transformed into, and do you have Biblical verses to back up the belief that the dead transform into something in Hades?

Yes, I have studied and prayed, and the more I do, the more I believe.

PS Hades/Sheol and eternal hell are not the same place. Nothing in the parable suggests it is permanent. Hades is a temporary place where the dead went, and it had a good side for the righteous, and a bad side for the unrighteous, and the two sides were divided. After Christ died he emptied the good side so as of today it is empty. And it stays empty because believers go to heaven when they die. However the bad side is not empty because unbelievers still go there. After the final judgement those who are in bad side of Hades (unbelievers), will end up in permanent hell aka the lake of fire.

Keep reading, and you will come to see the truth again.

After his death Christ decended to Hades, made a proclamation to his people, and then acended out of Haded with the believers

Ephesians 4:8-10

This is why it says:
"When he ascended on high,
he led captives in his train
and gave gifts to men." 9(What does "he ascended" mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions? 10He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.)

No, it is not my opinon, and there is Biblical proof, but I know better than to get in to a word twisting game with someone who has admitted that he/she does not believe. It's be a waste of time.
He did have an unanswered question of Ilene about what she meant about a transformation happening in sheol/hades based on the lazarus/richman parable (I personally believe that the parable is about the Jews destruction in gehenna 70AD, and the gentiles being gathered into Abrahams bosum, meaning the gentiles become the messengers of the gospel.)
 
Old 05-01-2010, 03:50 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,825 posts, read 9,828,269 times
Reputation: 1302
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
Quote by twin.spin:

People who offer a plan not offered by God, offer false gospel hope.

BHFT:
Can't say that I've ever heard of "false gospel hope" before. You believe God offers. Universalists believe God saves.
Finn_Jarber is proven correct again....." am talking about the never ending BICKERING about some meaningless detail and/or spelling or translation issue. It always begins as soon as their misinformation has been exposed. It is nothing but a desperate attempt to change the subject."



2 Timothy 2:14
Keep reminding them of these things. Warn them before God against quarreling about words; it is of no value, and only ruins those who listen.
 
Old 05-01-2010, 03:53 PM
 
309 posts, read 295,502 times
Reputation: 60
Twin....here is the post with the question....

Quote:
Ok.....let try this again then and lets see who 'actually' does NOT answer the question or just 'changes the subjuct' as you say.

ANYBODY WHO WISHES CAN ANSWER THIS QUESTION. ANYONE ON THIS THREAD CAN ANSWER THIS QUESTION IF THEY WANT TO...SO HERE IT IS.

ACCORDING TO THE "SCCCRRIIIPPTTUURES", WHERE IS DAVID RITE NOW AS WE SPEAK????
 
Old 05-01-2010, 04:17 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,825 posts, read 9,828,269 times
Reputation: 1302
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeallcomm View Post
Twin....here is the post with the question....
king david?
 
Old 05-01-2010, 04:31 PM
 
309 posts, read 295,502 times
Reputation: 60
Meerkat2...

Yes, and I have read this whole thread, including what you have just posted. And I have not seen anything wrong with the answer/rebuttals to his question/position. So as far as I can tell he has 4 hells (hell for good + hell for bad + tartaroo + LOF). He has very Catholic tones in his beliefs, which is ok with me, for people are where they are by God's will. But all he quoted OR BELIEVES does not line up with Act 2:29. I do admit that my 'posed question' is a LOADED one, but that was the intent of the question in the first place.

As with Ilene believing in a transformation in hades. She IS incorrect, but she is also new to this spirit she has, everything is flying at her at once. For everybody will die and go to hades and there is NOTHING there: no feelings, no device, no thoughts, no reasoning, no suffering, no joy, NO NOTHING. Her new eyes and ears will line her up to all truth in this matter, because at least she is figuring out what a 'parable' is. It is impossible to claim that a parable is 'literal'.

For Ilene's sake and WHOEVER wants to know WHO Lazarus is and WHO the Rich Man is and WHO are his 5 brothers and everything else about what this "parable" means then go to bibletruths dot com and read the article on Lazarus an the Rich man. (Ilene.....this article is VERY VERY eye opening). The parable is NOT what most people believe. Actually, I dont think any "parable" was spoken by Christ just so people could understand better. Some have the "ear" to hear the 'parable' and some have the "ear" to "understand its meaning".
 
Old 05-01-2010, 04:32 PM
 
309 posts, read 295,502 times
Reputation: 60
Twinspin...

Yes King David
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