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Old 05-04-2010, 10:47 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,284,911 times
Reputation: 420

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
IMO, you can't see the forest for the trees. You are looking at "the finer details" in Revelation and it's full of mystery and symbolism. It's probably not even meant for us to understand much of it in the first place. God is love. God is holy. God is just. God is merciful. God is faithful. God is patient. God loves His enemies. I could go on and on, but it probably wouldn't matter as long as you choose not to believe in His true character.
What about all His other attributes you left out?
Looking at the finer details about a book that is "Full of mystery and symbolism"? Last time I checked, none of it is mysterious to me, and yes it is full of symbols, easily deciphered in the scriptures. All you have to do is look.

Quote:
You don't understand "It is finished." God sent Jesus to be the redeemer of mankind, the Savior of the world. Jesus completed that mission and it was finished. He asked God to "forgive them for they know not what they do," not, "Forgive them if they make the wise choice to believe in Me."
And what else did He say about those not believing in Him, and what did His disciples and the early church apostles say in the inspired word of God about those who reject His love? I don't think you understand.

Talk about picking and choosing!

 
Old 05-04-2010, 10:52 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,284,911 times
Reputation: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
And you prefer to retain the veil of ignorance from those savage interpretations of God's inspirations rather than use the "mind of Christ" and the Holy Spirit within to use what is "written in our HEARTS" to interpret using the TRUE NATURE of God . . . NOT some savages' interpretations of the nature of God.
I knew you would resort to the "savage" claim...once again it shows you can't address the ENTIRE nature of GOD!

Quote:
2 Corinthians 3:14-17

But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
17Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
What does this have to do with anything?

Eisegesis!

Quote:
I don't see it as a laughing matter to deliberately eschew knowledge and retain an ignorant "fear doctrine" of God . . . when Jesus was SO EXPLICIT about "love God and each other" as encompassing it all.
Regrettably the so-called "true character" you trust is neither Divine or Holy or True (ONLY Jesus' character is Divine, Holy and True) . . . you follow another Spirit and it is evil.
I see it has come to name calling....once again.

Folks, this is what happens when the Universalist can't deal with the scripture that is presented to them which usurps their paradigm in the easiest of forms. It is because the Universalist is wrought and consumed with their own emotions and that they import these things into the text to support their view, when in fact what they actually accomplish, is the commitment of their paradigm to shame.
 
Old 05-04-2010, 11:02 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,720,522 times
Reputation: 263
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
What about all His other attributes you left out?
Looking at the finer details about a book that is "Full of mystery and symbolism"? Last time I checked, none of it is mysterious to me, and yes it is full of symbols, easily deciphered in the scriptures. All you have to do is look.

And what else did He say about those not believing in Him, and what did His disciples and the early church apostles say in the inspired word of God about those who reject His love? I don't think you understand.

Talk about picking and choosing!
The only attributes I left out were also good. He has no bad attributes, even though you can't see that because you don't fully know Him yet.

If you really think none of Revelation is mysterious to you, you are fooling yourself and have a prideful attitude.

He said those who don't believe, don't know Him (have eternal life.) John 17:3.

I don't recall a verse about those who "reject His love." Can you quote one?

Not only do I see many picking and choosing scriptures, but you and others pick and choose what points to address and ignore on this forum. Can you tell us why Jesus asked God to forgive them BECAUSE they didn't know what they were doing, as opposed to asking God to forgive those who believed in him/made a wise choice?
 
Old 05-05-2010, 06:46 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,451 posts, read 31,853,456 times
Reputation: 9399
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
It makes quite a bit of difference.

tartaroo, gehenna, hades, and sheol and the lake of fire do not all mean the word hell.

Seeing things as they are is bickering? Well, call it what you like.

Perhaps you have no defense for the word hell and that is your bigger problem.

"What difference does it make"? Really, that's your point?
It has been stressed over and over that they do not mean the same thing, but that doesn't mean hell doesn't exist. Hell exists, and I don't care how people nick name it.
 
Old 05-05-2010, 06:52 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,451 posts, read 31,853,456 times
Reputation: 9399
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
Imagine a fireman saying, "I saved all but a few because they chose to stay, and I didn't want to force them to exit the house against their free will." Would the local news herald him as a hero or savior? I hardly think so.
I can imagine one saying: "we got there too late because the residents didn't call us".

Or "we knocked, and they told us to go away, we pounded on the door, and they told us to go away, when we broke the window, and they ran into the kitchen and the roof collapsed on them. They refused our help and perished".

Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 05-05-2010 at 07:10 AM..
 
Old 05-05-2010, 06:55 AM
 
Location: God's Country
21,416 posts, read 29,529,737 times
Reputation: 29917
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
It has been stressed over and over that they do not mean the same thing, but that doesn't mean hell doesn't exist. Hell exists, and I don't care how people nick name it.
If hell doesn't exist (and we know it does) then Jesus paid a HIGH price for nothing.
 
Old 05-05-2010, 07:01 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,451 posts, read 31,853,456 times
Reputation: 9399
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilene Wright View Post
I have a mind of my own and I will go wherever God leads me and right now He's leading me away from that awful thing called eternal torment doctrine.
Honestly Ilene, it is not God who is leading you, it is Legonan. It seems you believe whatever he says, and yesterday he used a convoluted argument which was a clear attepmt to twist the truth, but you embraced it anyway. You said it was an eye-opener, althought it was a classic subterfuge based on KJV translation of Hades. They use it all the time, and it has been exposed over and over.
 
Old 05-05-2010, 07:08 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,451 posts, read 31,853,456 times
Reputation: 9399
Quote:
Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA View Post
If hell doesn't exist (and we know it does) then Jesus paid a HIGH price for nothing.
Exactly.
 
Old 05-05-2010, 08:06 AM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,720,522 times
Reputation: 263
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
I can imagine one saying: "we got there too late because the residents didn't call us".

Or "we knocked, and they told us to go away, we pounded on the door, and they told us to go away, when we broke the window, and they ran into the kitchen and the roof collapsed on them. They refused our help and perished".
"we got there too late because the residents didn't call us". - Makes God helpless and totally dependent on people to have the power to save.

Or "we knocked, and they told us to go away, we pounded on the door, and they told us to go away, when we broke the window, and they ran into the kitchen and the roof collapsed on them. They refused our help and perished". Are you kidding? People in burning houses don't tell fireman to go away, unless maybe they already have brain damage from the smoke inhalation. That analogy is a form of you people thinking those in ignorance and unbelief deserve to burn forever. Paul said he was shown mercy BECAUSE OF his ignorance and unbelief.
 
Old 05-05-2010, 08:07 AM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,720,522 times
Reputation: 263
Quote:
Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA View Post
If hell doesn't exist (and we know it does) then Jesus paid a HIGH price for nothing.
You are so very wrong, and it's sad that you would think that.
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