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Old 05-05-2010, 07:54 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,297,289 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
What verse tells you that to proclaim "have faith or go to hell" is the 'Good News?'
Whosoever believes in me, will inherit eternal life?....did you miss that one?
Sounds like the best news I would ever hear. That God loved me so much that He died for me, so I wouldn't perish if I believe in Him.

 
Old 05-05-2010, 08:01 PM
 
309 posts, read 295,845 times
Reputation: 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
How do you bury a soul? Of course they buried his body. There is nothing else to bury. The soul is long gone by the time of the funeral.

Yes, they are talking about D A V I D, the earthly guy. The Bible says that Lord will give a new name to every believer, an eternal name, which is written on a white stone, so David is called something else up there, while the DAVID down here was buried in a tomb. So, your verse only proves that the earthly body of David was buried, while his soul with the new name went elsewhere.

“I will also give him a white stone with a new name written on it, known only to him who receives it.” – Revelation 2:17

Besides, "ascend" always refers to someone's body ascending to heaven like in the case of Jesus. After all Act 2:34 isn't really talking about David, it is talking about Jesus physically ascending to heaven in body and spirit.

If you want to believe the universalist teaching the soul is abandoned in the grave with the rotting body, then that's what you believe, and there isn't much anyone can do about that. They used the word sepulchre = physical burial chamber, and since you insist they buried in soul too, then according to your own argument his soul is in this sepulchre too. I could listen to an Internet universalist, or I can go with the Holy Bible, and I choose to believe the Bible. Sorry.

I know they tell you to believe and repeat certain things, and all universalists tend to cling to a handful of misinterpreted verses and use them as their corner stones and this is one of them, but as you can clearly see, the bottom has fallen out of this one.



Where is the word soul in that verse? Think! THINK!!

Finn….

How do you bury a soul? Answer: You ‘don’t’. And yes, they are talking about a body in a grave, but you are missing the point. If some guy, who didn’t know David was DEAD, came walking up to them and asked them “Hey, where is DAVID”. They are not going to say anything but “HE (David) is both D.E.A.D and buried”.

The David they knew was DEAD. Plain and simple. If he could be given 10 NEW BODIES during his ONE life and died ONCE, they would still say that “DAVID” is dead. So when they are saying the name David, they are talking about DAVID, NOT his body, but when talking about his grave they are talking about his body. You are really reaching for this one.

Rev 2:17. To pull this verse out of a “highly symbolic” book to prove your point is equally reaching. What! Am I now to go around and tell every body that Christ “literally” turns into a LAMB with four legs and hoofs in heaven. LOL

Act 2:34 …..You are mistaken again, for this IS talking about David….”For David is not ascended into the heavens:”……the rest of the verse is talking about Christ. Actually, from verse 25-36 it is making the point that David was NOT talking about ‘himself’ but Christ.

Lets look at it again.

“For David is not ascended into the heavens:….”

Where do I see the word “soul” in this verse? Answer: Nowhere. But do I SEE a soul being talked about in this verse. YES. David was once a “living soul” named DAVID and now he is a “DEAD soul” named DAVID. His SOUL did not go to heaven, only his ‘spirit’ did….

Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

You are mistaken to think that Man HAS a soul. Man does NOT have a soul. Rather man “IS” a soul (Gen 2:7). Man is nothing more than a “living breathing creature” (Heb: nephesh=SOUL) according to the scriptures. Man is NOT a triune man as you think. STUDY! STUDY!

Do I believe that a soul is abandoned in a “grave” with a rotting body. NO! There is a proper name to be used for a “literal” grave in the Hebrew scriptures and it is NOT called “sheol”. The translated word ‘grave’ for sheol is a bad translation. Sheol and the “literal” grave are two totally different things. Sheol should NOT be translated grave, because it makes people thing that it is a “literal” grave and its not. I can tell you WHAT I think “sheol/hades” is and why it is so hard to describe, but I don’t know how much of it anyone would want to hear.
 
Old 05-05-2010, 08:03 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,724,847 times
Reputation: 263
Quote:
Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA View Post
What doesn't surprise me anymore is how much of the Bible you don't believe.
You give Mike555 a lot of thumbs up, maybe you should ask him if repentance, being sorry for your sins, is a requirement for salvation. Do you think he believes the Bible?

Edit: Or see Joel Osteen and his sinner's prayer Post#24.
 
Old 05-05-2010, 08:10 PM
 
20,335 posts, read 15,713,584 times
Reputation: 7477
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
ILNC, you might be surprised to find out that repentance isn't a requirement of salvation. Mike555, who you are a fan of, posted that little tidbit also. One verse that some contribute to that belief is: Acts 2:38:

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


This causes the arguments among those who believe you must be baptized to be saved. However, the problem with this concept is that the Greek word for remission is "aphiemi," which has the meanings listed below. So, repenting makes you want to stop sinning, so you stop sinning, and the sins go away.
  1. to send away
    1. to bid going away or depart
      1. of a husband divorcing his wife
    2. to send forth, yield up, to expire
    3. to let go, let alone, let be
      1. to disregard
      2. to leave, not to discuss now, (a topic) 1c
  2. of teachers, writers and speakers
      1. to omit, neglect
    1. to let go, give up a debt, forgive, to remit
    2. to give up, keep no longer
  3. to permit, allow, not to hinder, to give up a thing to a person
  4. to leave, go way from one
    1. in order to go to another place
    2. to depart from any one
    3. to depart from one and leave him to himself so that all mutual claims are abandoned
    4. to desert wrongfully
    5. to go away leaving something behind
    6. to leave one by not taking him as a companion
    7. to leave on dying, leave behind one
    8. to leave so that what is left may remain, leave remaining
    9. abandon, leave destitute
Source: Aphiemi - Greek Lexicon
Repentance is necessary for salvation. Repentance as it relates to eternal salvation is the Greek word METANOEO and means to change your mind. You didn't believe in Christ, but as a result of hearing the Gospel message and the Holy Spirit having made the Gospel understandable to you, now you do believe in Christ. You had a change of mind about Christ. And about yourself and your need for Christ. You repented.

The Greek word METAMELOMAI which means to feel remorse or regret, is not necessary for salvation. A person might or might not have remorse or regret when he believes in Christ for salvation, but that is not the repentance. Repentance is the recognition of the need to believe in Christ and doing so. It is not feeling sorry for your sins, though a person may indeed have regrets.

Repentance is simultaneous with believing in Christ. At the moment you believe in Christ you have repented.

Repentance is explained by Dr. Harry Ironside...

Except Ye Repent - By Dr. Harry Ironside
 
Old 05-05-2010, 08:23 PM
 
20,335 posts, read 15,713,584 times
Reputation: 7477
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
You give Mike555 a lot of thumbs up, maybe you should ask him if repentance, being sorry for your sins, is a requirement for salvation. Do you think he believes the Bible?

Edit: Or see Joel Osteen and his sinner's prayer Post#24.
Also, posts #26, 30 and 34. and compare with what I just posted in post #424 of this thread.
 
Old 05-05-2010, 08:29 PM
 
309 posts, read 295,845 times
Reputation: 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
2 Thessalonians 2:13
But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers loved by the Lord, because from the beginning God chose you to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth.

from the beginning God chose you to be saved: How?


1. sanctifying work of the Spirit
  • The Holy Spirit...3rd person of the Trinity, the person who creats faith
  • Sanctify...2 : to free from sin, 4 : to make productive of holiness or piety (Websters)
2. through belief in the truthJohn 5:24
"I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.
the chance to belief in the truth ends at death


John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him."


John 6:40
For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."


John 11:25
Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies; and whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?"

Though a person dies, as long as he believes in Christ ...lives.




Jesus asks..... "Do you believe this?"
Yes one must believe, the question is did you have a choice in the matter. NO you did not.

Romans 8:29
For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
Romans 8:30
And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

Ephesians 1:5
he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will—

Ephesians 1:11
In him we were also chosen (you did not choose him), having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of HIS WILL [not man's]

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it (faith) is the gift of God (you didn't attain it, it was GIVEN to you, so...)
Eph 2:9 Not of (your) works, lest (you or) any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

You are "before ordained" to walk in Him and "believe" in him. You have no choice in the matter. DO YOU BELIEVE THIS!!!!
 
Old 05-05-2010, 08:37 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,724,847 times
Reputation: 263
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Repentance is necessary for salvation. Repentance as it relates to eternal salvation is the Greek word METANOEO and means to change your mind. You didn't believe in Christ, but as a result of hearing the Gospel message and the Holy Spirit having made the Gospel understandable to you, now you do believe in Christ. You had a change of mind about Christ. And about yourself and your need for Christ. You repented.

The Greek word METAMELOMAI which means to feel remorse or regret, is not necessary for salvation. A person might or might not have remorse or regret when he believes in Christ for salvation, but that is not the repentance. Repentance is the recognition of the need to believe in Christ and doing so. It is not feeling sorry for your sins, though a person may indeed have regrets.

Repentance is simultaneous with believing in Christ. At the moment you believe in Christ you have repented.

Repentance is explained by Dr. Harry Ironside...

Except Ye Repent - By Dr. Harry Ironside
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Also, posts #26, 30 and 34. and compare with what I just posted in post #424 of this thread.
That's what I was telling ILNC. You believe being sorry for your sins is not necessary for salvation.
 
Old 05-05-2010, 08:47 PM
 
20,335 posts, read 15,713,584 times
Reputation: 7477
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
That's what I was telling ILNC. You believe being sorry for your sins is not necessary for salvation.
Simply read what Dr. Harry Ironside wrote about it. I posted the link in post #424.
 
Old 05-05-2010, 09:03 PM
 
Location: God's Country
21,435 posts, read 29,601,834 times
Reputation: 29962
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
You give Mike555 a lot of thumbs up, maybe you should ask him if repentance, being sorry for your sins, is a requirement for salvation. Do you think he believes the Bible?

Edit: Or see Joel Osteen and his sinner's prayer Post#24.
Yes he most definitely believes the Bible, his posts always line up with Scripture.
No where have I seen him say he does not believe in repentance.
 
Old 05-05-2010, 09:27 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,724,847 times
Reputation: 263
Quote:
Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA View Post
Yes he most definitely believes the Bible, his posts always line up with Scripture.
No where have I seen him say he does not believe in repentance.
Did you read the link or the posts above yours that say he does not believe being sorry for your sins is a requirement for salvation? He believes repent and believe mean the same thing.

In fact, he thinks you're going to hell IF you think being sorry for your sins is a condition for your salvation. On that post #24 he said, "If you try to work up some kind of sorrow for your sins as a condition for salvation, you have added your work to the work of Christ on the Cross and you are NOT saved."

So, there's at least one thing you two don't agree on.
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