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Old 05-06-2010, 04:54 PM
 
Location: God's Country
21,416 posts, read 29,537,833 times
Reputation: 29922

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
Astray from what?

The idea concerning Christian Universalism is the only reason I haven't become an Athiest, so it did not lead me astray from the Lord it had the opposite effect that you claim here.
It leads people away from the truth that hell is eternal separation from God.

 
Old 05-06-2010, 04:56 PM
 
Location: God's Country
21,416 posts, read 29,537,833 times
Reputation: 29922
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilene Wright View Post
I can see that and what you said here the other's against universalism really need to pay close attention to. Did you hear that guys? It does not lead people astray.......it brings them into a closer relationship with the Lord!! Anything that does that deserves some looking into imo.
YES it does!!!!!!!!!!!! It is NOT what the Bible teaches and anything that does not line up with the Word of God is a lie and dangerous!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Old 05-06-2010, 05:11 PM
 
37,496 posts, read 25,232,088 times
Reputation: 5854
Quote:
Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA View Post
YES it does!!!!!!!!!!!! It is NOT what the Bible teaches and anything that does not line up with the Word of God is a lie and dangerous!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jesus did NOT say "love the Bible and everything in it." He said "love God and each other." How can you possibly believe anything that draws us closer and closer to love of God and each other is dangerous?
 
Old 05-06-2010, 05:13 PM
 
Location: God's Country
21,416 posts, read 29,537,833 times
Reputation: 29922
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Jesus did NOT say "love the Bible and everything in it." He said "love God and each other." How can you possibly believe anything that draws us closer and closer to love of God and each other is dangerous?
When it's a lie from satan, it's dangerous, when it goes against the Word of God, it's dangerous.
 
Old 05-06-2010, 05:17 PM
 
37,496 posts, read 25,232,088 times
Reputation: 5854
Quote:
Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA View Post
When it's a lie from satan, it's dangerous, when it goes against the Word of God, it's dangerous.
Satan is drawing us closer to "love of God and each other????" Why??? How on earth could that be dangerous?
 
Old 05-06-2010, 05:31 PM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,430,337 times
Reputation: 989
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
Actually, it says it's the "second death". What is the first death? Is it having to do with what Paul says, that all men have died in Adam? Is that the spiritual death of humanity? (I tend to think so.)

Then what is the second death? Is it our physical death? (That doesn't seem likely to me, but I could be wrong.) Or is it the death we die to sin when we're baptized into Christ's death? That's what I think, but maybe it's something else altogether.
"Even as in Adam all are dying" (1 Cor.15:22).
It can't be our physical death because the second death is in the future Day of the Lord. We are not living in that day yet.

It can't be the death we die to sin because the second death is in the future Lord's Day which is not here yet.

It can't be being baptized into Christ's death because that happened 2000 years ago and the lake of fire which is death is in the future Lord's Day which has not come yet.

What is the second death? Here are some second things in the New Testament:

Luk 12:38 And if He should be coming in the second watch
Joh 4:54 Now this, again, is the second sign

Act 13:33 that God has fully fulfilled this for our children in raising Jesus, as it is written in the second psalm

Act 28:13 whence, tacking about, we arrive at Rhegium, and the south wind coming on after one day, we came the second day to Puteoli,

2Co 1:15 And in this confidence I intended formerly to come to you, that you should be having a second grace,

Tit 3:10 A sectarian man, after one and a second admonition, refuse,
Heb 9:3 Now after the second curtain

2Pe 3:1 This is already, beloved, the second epistle

Rev 4:7 And the first animal is like a lion, and the second animal is like a calf
Rev 6:3 And when It opens the second seal, I hear the second animal saying, "Come!"

Rev 8:8 And the second messenger trumpets.

Rev 11:14 The second woe passed away.

Rev 14:8 And another, a second messenger,

The second death is like the first death. It is an unconscious, lifeless existence.
 
Old 05-06-2010, 05:53 PM
 
Location: SC Foothills
8,830 posts, read 9,747,770 times
Reputation: 58197
Quote:
Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA View Post
YES it does!!!!!!!!!!!! It is NOT what the Bible teaches and anything that does not line up with the Word of God is a lie and dangerous!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Whew, calm down a little bit Miss ILNC. From what I have learned so far it does indeed line up with the word of God. Imagine if you're wrong.....if what you have believed your whole life is completely wrong!! Don't you see something inherently wrong with people burning in a lake of fire forever? Can't you see how this goes against God's nature? I never saw it but I NEVER understood how a loving God could do that to his creation.

It's made me want to turn away from God on many occasions because I just could not understand this. I cannot believe in the eternal torment doctrine any longer if I want to remain a Christian. I understand completely what Phazelwood means by CU being the only thing that kept him/her (sorry) from becoming an atheist. I guess the idea of most of creation burning in hell for all of eternity doesn't bother some as much as it does me. I can't just accept it as "oh well, they deserve it" type mentality like you have to develop to believe in such brutality.

There is plenty of scripture to support this. You just have to be willing to look at it without the blinders of what you've been taught. Indoctrination is a very serious thing and if you are raised to believe certain things then a lot of times they never get questioned. I know for a fact that UR is NOT from the devil......that much I can say for sure. I have felt joy and love and a myriad of feelings I can't even put into words since I started to investigate it. I now believe that eternal torment may in fact be the teaching that is of the devil. Consider where it came from and the purpose it would serve. It was used to control and to scare into submission.

Well I'm not buying it anymore. There are mistranslations and a lot about the word of God that is misunderstood. Try to stop seeing this as such a dire situation......it's far from that. Love God and each other.
 
Old 05-06-2010, 08:06 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,720,996 times
Reputation: 263
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilene Wright View Post
Whew, calm down a little bit Miss ILNC. From what I have learned so far it does indeed line up with the word of God. Imagine if you're wrong.....if what you have believed your whole life is completely wrong!! Don't you see something inherently wrong with people burning in a lake of fire forever? Can't you see how this goes against God's nature? I never saw it but I NEVER understood how a loving God could do that to his creation.

It's made me want to turn away from God on many occasions because I just could not understand this. I cannot believe in the eternal torment doctrine any longer if I want to remain a Christian. I understand completely what Phazelwood means by CU being the only thing that kept him/her (sorry) from becoming an atheist. I guess the idea of most of creation burning in hell for all of eternity doesn't bother some as much as it does me. I can't just accept it as "oh well, they deserve it" type mentality like you have to develop to believe in such brutality.

There is plenty of scripture to support this. You just have to be willing to look at it without the blinders of what you've been taught. Indoctrination is a very serious thing and if you are raised to believe certain things then a lot of times they never get questioned. I know for a fact that UR is NOT from the devil......that much I can say for sure. I have felt joy and love and a myriad of feelings I can't even put into words since I started to investigate it. I now believe that eternal torment may in fact be the teaching that is of the devil. Consider where it came from and the purpose it would serve. It was used to control and to scare into submission.

Well I'm not buying it anymore. There are mistranslations and a lot about the word of God that is misunderstood. Try to stop seeing this as such a dire situation......it's far from that. Love God and each other.
Great post!
 
Old 05-06-2010, 08:14 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,720,996 times
Reputation: 263
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Therefore to say that Satan wants to promote the idea of eternity in the lake of fire is just plain contrary to common sense. And to truth.
What is contrary to common sense is for Satan to want to promote that God is holy, just, merciful, loving, kind, and patience, and will overcome evil with good, save, redeem, reconcile, and forgive the people he knit together in the womb.
 
Old 05-06-2010, 08:27 PM
 
Location: God's Country
21,416 posts, read 29,537,833 times
Reputation: 29922
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilene Wright View Post
Whew, calm down a little bit Miss ILNC. From what I have learned so far it does indeed line up with the word of God. Imagine if you're wrong.....if what you have believed your whole life is completely wrong!! Don't you see something inherently wrong with people burning in a lake of fire forever? Can't you see how this goes against God's nature? I never saw it but I NEVER understood how a loving God could do that to his creation.

It's made me want to turn away from God on many occasions because I just could not understand this. I cannot believe in the eternal torment doctrine any longer if I want to remain a Christian. I understand completely what Phazelwood means by CU being the only thing that kept him/her (sorry) from becoming an atheist. I guess the idea of most of creation burning in hell for all of eternity doesn't bother some as much as it does me. I can't just accept it as "oh well, they deserve it" type mentality like you have to develop to believe in such brutality.

There is plenty of scripture to support this. You just have to be willing to look at it without the blinders of what you've been taught. Indoctrination is a very serious thing and if you are raised to believe certain things then a lot of times they never get questioned. I know for a fact that UR is NOT from the devil......that much I can say for sure. I have felt joy and love and a myriad of feelings I can't even put into words since I started to investigate it. I now believe that eternal torment may in fact be the teaching that is of the devil. Consider where it came from and the purpose it would serve. It was used to control and to scare into submission.

Well I'm not buying it anymore. There are mistranslations and a lot about the word of God that is misunderstood. Try to stop seeing this as such a dire situation......it's far from that. Love God and each other.
No Ilene, Scripture does NOT support this theory and you know it, or least you used to. I don't feel anyone deserves hell, but it's a choice. You have seen all the Scripture that prove that hell is eternal separation from God, you know the truth, please don't reject it! Lies come from the devil and this is a BIG one! It's a "feel good" kind of religion. When you turn your back on what the Bible teaches it is a dire situation. I am praying for you as many others are too. Please do not be blinded by this.
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