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Old 05-06-2010, 09:39 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,392,881 times
Reputation: 1690

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Quote:
Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA View Post
Some people have been through stuff that hardens their heart, some people are just too stubborn to believe.
IS that God ordained stuff and stubbornness or is God completely unaware of what is in their heart at any given moment?

And IF God ordained this stuff and stubbornness then how can he be just in punishing someone for eternity in fire for something he, in fact, ordained?

Romans 11:32 For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

 
Old 05-06-2010, 09:39 PM
 
15,049 posts, read 7,550,070 times
Reputation: 1978
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
God doesn't pick "favorites" who He allows the Holy Spirit to change.
Quote:
Originally Posted by .sparrow. View Post
Amen, Pleroo.
He absolutely would NOT.
I truly don't understand how anyone would think that God, who alone is able to change hearts, would choose not to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
How can you say that preaching people will go to hell (that God made especially for torturing bad people) is GOOD NEWS? Isaiah puts it plainly... PROCLAIM salvation, PROCLAIM peace.... Where in the bible does it say to proclaim people are going to hell?
I think this is such a good point, kat!
 
Old 05-06-2010, 09:41 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,392,881 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
I truly don't understand how anyone would think that God, who alone is able to change hearts, would choose not to.



I think this is such a good point, kat!
God doesn't have free will, silly! Humans do!
 
Old 05-06-2010, 09:42 PM
 
37,552 posts, read 25,261,889 times
Reputation: 5858
Quote:
Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA View Post
Each person has to make a choice to accept or believe, everyone is not going to believe.
You don't threaten or blackmail anyone into belief. It is NOT a choice . . . it is a state of mind. All threats and blackmail can do is cause a false proclamation. Put a gun to someone's head and they will "believe" whatever you want them to.
 
Old 05-06-2010, 09:42 PM
 
15,049 posts, read 7,550,070 times
Reputation: 1978
Quote:
Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA View Post
Some people have been through stuff that hardens their heart, some people are just too stubborn to believe.
They've been through stuff? Didn't God know ahead of time that those things would harden their hearts? Then why would he allow it to happen to them if He knew eternal torment was going to be the only possible outcome for them?

Some people are too stubborn? So, God created some people to be more stubborn than His Spirit could do anything about?
 
Old 05-06-2010, 09:42 PM
 
5,739 posts, read 4,586,534 times
Reputation: 4160
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Romans 11:32 For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

Amen.
 
Old 05-06-2010, 09:52 PM
 
15,049 posts, read 7,550,070 times
Reputation: 1978
Quote:
Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA View Post
Some people have been through stuff that hardens their heart, some people are just too stubborn to believe.
I'm sorry ILNC, it must seem like you're being ganged up on. But this kind of thinking just breaks my heart! I sincerely do not understand how you can acknowledge in one breath that the Spirit is the only one who can change hearts, and in the next deny that He would do that for every one.
 
Old 05-06-2010, 10:21 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,825 posts, read 9,819,724 times
Reputation: 1302
Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
ILNC you will have to provide a scripture to show what you believe.

No where does it say that Jesus died so we wouldn't have to go to hell. Jesus didn't die for "nothing". Jesus died to save us from our sin and DEATH.
Generally speaking, those who demand proof from Jesus or the disciples opposed them....what makes today any different?
 
Old 05-06-2010, 10:26 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,825 posts, read 9,819,724 times
Reputation: 1302
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
I'm sorry ILNC, it must seem like you're being ganged up on. But this kind of thinking just breaks my heart! I sincerely do not understand how you can acknowledge in one breath that the Spirit is the only one who can change hearts, and in the next deny that He would do that for every one.
This is how:

1 Corinthians 2:14
The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Because they are spiritually discerned, they stand condemned already. Eternal damnation in hell is the fullfillment of the condemnation while alive.
 
Old 05-07-2010, 01:56 AM
 
20,307 posts, read 15,661,748 times
Reputation: 7423
Quote:
Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA View Post
Some people have been through stuff that hardens their heart, some people are just too stubborn to believe.
That's exactly right ILNC. People, both as unbelievers and as believers are quite able to resist the Holy Spirit. In the case of believers, that's why the believer is commanded to not quench the Holy Spirit (1 Thess. 5:19) and to not grieve the Holy Spirit (Eph. 4:30). These have to do with committing sin. Once in a state of carnality, a believer can remain in that status, continually resisting the Holy Spirit. That is why the believer is commanded to be filled with the Spirit as per (Eph. 5:18). How? By the principle of (1 John 1:9) in naming your sins to God.

The unbeliever can resist the Holy Spirit as well. Acts 7:51 ''You men who are stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears are always resisting the Holy Spirit; you are doing just as your fathers did. This was said by Stephen to those who were about to stone him to death, and which Saul who had as yet not been saved, approved of.


The Holy Spirit

Acts 7:51 "You stiff-necked people, with uncircumcised hearts and ears! You are just like your fathers: You always resist the Holy Spirit!
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