U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 05-07-2010, 09:57 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,610 posts, read 31,995,277 times
Reputation: 9427

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilene Wright View Post
Yes it does support it. There's been a number of scriptures quoted that support it.
Perhaps one day you will share them with us.

 
Old 05-07-2010, 10:01 AM
 
Location: SC Foothills
8,830 posts, read 9,764,479 times
Reputation: 58198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Perhaps one day you will share them with us.
Oh come on Finn, they have been quoted over and over again. If I quote scripture will you even see it or understand what it really means? NO, because your mind is set and all you see is what you have been taught to see. Read through the whole thread and you will see plenty of scriptures that support it. Why keep going around this mountain? Just read.
 
Old 05-07-2010, 10:19 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,610 posts, read 31,995,277 times
Reputation: 9427
Quote:
Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA View Post
No Ilene, Scripture does NOT support this theory and you know it, or least you used to. I don't feel anyone deserves hell, but it's a choice. You have seen all the Scripture that prove that hell is eternal separation from God, you know the truth, please don't reject it! Lies come from the devil and this is a BIG one! It's a "feel good" kind of religion. When you turn your back on what the Bible teaches it is a dire situation. I am praying for you as many others are too. Please do not be blinded by this.
Indeed. Ilene has been led astray. Those who did it to her will one day have to answer to God for it.

The problem with universalism is that if they were right, it would make God a liar, which is impossible. It would also make Christ's sacrifice on the cross meaningless, which is also impossible because God would not do such thing to his own son, unless if it was of utmost importance.

Hell s real, and the Bible makes is crystal clear:

Quote:
As heaven is a place and not a mere state of mind, in like manner those accursed go to a place of eternal damnation. This truth is indicated by the words hades (Matt. 11:23; 16:18; Luke 10:15; 16:23; Rev. 1:18; 20:13-14) and gehenna (Matt. 5:22, 29-30; 10:28; James 3:6) a place of "torment" (Luke 16:28) and tarturus for only the fallen angels (2Peter2:4). That it is a condition of unspeakable misery is indicated by the figurative terms used to describe its sufferings"everlasting fire" (Matt. 25:41); "where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched" (Mark 9:44, 46); "the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone" (Rev. 21:8); "bottomless pit" (Rev. 9:2); "outer darkness," a place of "weeping and gnashing of teeth" (Matt. 8:12); "fire unquenchable" (Luke 3:17); "furnace of fire" (Matt. 13:42); "blackness of darkness" (Jude 1:13), and "the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night" (Rev. 14:11).


Universalists are 'mercyists' who simple cannot accept what the Bible says about salvation and the rules which God put it place for mankind. The Bible talks of only one way to salvation, but the mercyists have created other ways to salvation, because they cannot accept the rules of God. Why would God establish such rules, if he was going to violate them himself? When God breaks his own rule, he lies, and liars need a saviour, but who is going to save God? The Bible is clear: God will NOT RESCUE those who reject Christ and his payment for sin. If he rescued even one person out of generosity, it would mean he could rescue all persons out of generousity, and then Christ's sacrifice would be rendered meaningless. The retribution of the sinners is a holy demand, and it must be met. God provided us with perfect solution, and God paid an infinite price for the solution, so who are we to tamper with his solution.
 
Old 05-07-2010, 10:26 AM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,692,673 times
Reputation: 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Indeed. Ilene has been led astray. Those who did it to her will one day have to answer to God for it.

I accept that I will have to face God for my life and any role I may have played in seeing Ilene gain more FREEDOM in Christ. I welcome such a day. What God will do to me, is what he will do to me. What you think God will do to me is irrelevant because it is not up to you in the first place and with such remarks you do not represent freedom in Christ, you represent doctrinal bondage.

Will you rejoice that someone is closer to God? Because that is what has happened to Ilene even if she does not agree with all doctrinal positions that someone else may have.
 
Old 05-07-2010, 10:29 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,405,317 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Universalists are 'mercyists' who simple cannot accept what the Bible says about salvation and the rules which God put it place for mankind. The Bible talks of only one way to salvation, but the mercyists have created other ways to salvation, because they cannot accept the rules of God. Why would God establish such rules, if he was going to violate them himself? When God breaks his own rule, he lies, and liars need a saviour, but who is going to save God? The Bible is clear: God will NOT RESCUE those who reject Christ and his payment for sin. If he rescued even one person out of generosity, it would mean he could rescue all persons out of generousity, and then Christ's sacrifice would be rendered meaningless. The retribution of the sinners is a holy demand, and it must be met. God provided us with perfect solution, and God paid an infinite price for the solution, so who are we to tamper with his solution.
Hey! I like that! Mercy-ists!

Your logic here is undeniably convoluted...

You say that if someone rejects Christs payment for sin.... Did Christ pay them for the sin? How can you reject something not directed toward you? Didn't Christ pay God for the sin? How can human rejection of belief affect what Christ did? Or do you think that God is an ego maniac who only loves those who love him?

I don't understand what you mean when you say: "God paid an infinite price for the solution, so who are we to tamper with his solution."

Why would God pay the price to himself? and then allow humans to thwart that?

Mercy-ists believe God received payment for sin and "it is finished."

Why don't you?
 
Old 05-07-2010, 10:31 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,610 posts, read 31,995,277 times
Reputation: 9427
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilene Wright View Post
Oh come on Finn, they have been quoted over and over again. If I quote scripture will you even see it or understand what it really means? NO, because your mind is set and all you see is what you have been taught to see. Read through the whole thread and you will see plenty of scriptures that support it. Why keep going around this mountain? Just read.
I have read them, and they have been blown out of the water by the truth. I have also read the fabricated claims (like that no one goes to heaven when they die) coming from the universalists and I have seen them taken apart and destroyed.

It is critical for the URs to prove hell doesn't exist because it creates a real dilemma for them. It destroys the the very foundation of their creation, a new universal religion, which promotes a brand new way (a shortcut) to salvation. I mean, why would there be hell is everyone is saved? It's a dilemma. However, the Bible is FULL of evidence which pulverizes such nonsense. The Bible repeats is over and over and over, so there can't be any mistakes about it.
 
Old 05-07-2010, 10:38 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,405,317 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
I have read them, and they have been blown out of the water by the truth. I have also read the fabricated claims (like that no one goes to heaven when they die) coming from the universalists and I have seen them taken apart and destroyed.

It is critical for the URs to prove hell doesn't exist because it creates a real dilemma for them. It destroys the the very foundation of their creation, a new universal religion, which promotes a brand new way (a shortcut) to salvation. I mean, why would there be hell is everyone is saved? It's a dilemma. However, the Bible is FULL of evidence which pulverizes such nonsense. The Bible repeats is over and over and over, so there can't be any mistakes about it.
It isn't critical for Mercy-ists to prove anything... Nothing was proven to Ilene... all it took was a reconciliation of scripture with what she already knew about God. God is love. When you read the bible in context (1st century) and knowing God is love it is easier for God show you the truth. Some take longer but it will also happen to you Finn.

Romans 2:4 Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?

It is evident that Ilene is bursting forth with Love for God and others... if ET had facilitated that change then I would believe in ET... however by nature of Hell, ET is ineffectual in bringing ANYONE closer to God. IMO

Kindness brings forth repentance... threats of burning forever bring rebellion....
 
Old 05-07-2010, 10:46 AM
 
965 posts, read 718,491 times
Reputation: 393
Quote:
It is critical for the URs to prove hell doesn't exist because it creates a real dilemma for them. It destroys the the very foundation of their creation, a new universal religion, which promotes a brand new way (a shortcut) to salvation. I mean, why would there be hell is everyone is saved? It's a dilemma. However, the Bible is FULL of evidence which pulverizes such nonsense. The Bible repeats is over and over and over, so there can't be any mistakes about it.
Come on Finn, your twisting what we believe. We're not preaching another gospel. Salvation is through Christ PERIOD.

All we're saying (at least what I'm saying) is those who are not saved are already in 'hell'.

This my verse vs. your verse isn't working....let's use some common sense...how can the gospel really be the good news if according to you and other ET'ers, only a small fraction get saved? Who is victorious, the devil or Christ if 90% roast for all of eternity? Who'd want to worship a God like that?
 
Old 05-07-2010, 10:51 AM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,692,673 times
Reputation: 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
I have read them, and they have been blown out of the water by the truth. I have also read the fabricated claims (like that no one goes to heaven when they die) coming from the universalists and I have seen them taken apart and destroyed.

It is critical for the URs to prove hell doesn't exist because it creates a real dilemma for them. It destroys the the very foundation of their creation, a new universal religion, which promotes a brand new way (a shortcut) to salvation. I mean, why would there be hell is everyone is saved? It's a dilemma. However, the Bible is FULL of evidence which pulverizes such nonsense. The Bible repeats is over and over and over, so there can't be any mistakes about it.


Well, that is a grand speech, however it is all contradicted by the Freedom people find in their lives when they get closer to God out of Love. Your main defense is not the greateness of God, but to threaten someone with what you believe God is going to do to them.

That is not speaking freedom or truth, it is honoring death and misery.
 
Old 05-07-2010, 11:18 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,610 posts, read 31,995,277 times
Reputation: 9427
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Why don't you?
Because I know better.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top