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Old 05-07-2010, 04:38 PM
 
Location: God's Country
21,418 posts, read 29,551,815 times
Reputation: 29927

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post



But ILNC, you've completely ignored the problem. You acknowledge that the Holy Spirit alone is responsible for changing hearts, and then deny that He is willing to change all hearts. There's a disconnect there.

You know why that breaks my heart, ILNC? Because I used to do the exact same thing for 40+ years. But the total contradiction that puts in one's mind about the true character of God is so destructive!

ILNC, don't you ever wonder what on earth made you so much more special than any other "unbeliever" to God? Why did the Holy Spirit change your heart, while refusing to change the hearts of the billions of people that you think are going to spend eternity in torment?

I used to wonder that all the time. I knew who I was, what I was ... there was absolutely nothing special about me that made me any more worthy of the Holy Spirit's attention and intervention than anyone else.

If God's Spirit is the only one who can change hearts, but He isn't willing to change everyone's hearts, then He doesn't love everyone the way the Bible says He does. That would mean He's not who He says He is. Do you see what I mean, ILNC?
I guess what you don't understand is that it is a choice we all have to make. Yes God reveals Himself to ALL people, but some people reject Him anyway. God does not force Himself on anyone. It's not that God is not willing, it's that people are not willing to believe and accept Him.

 
Old 05-07-2010, 04:44 PM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,437,909 times
Reputation: 989
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Really? So, only those who believe in UR can have joy and peace. That's very interesting, because I have joy and peace, and I every believer I know have joy and peace. Accrding to your UR belief only a very small fraction of th epopulation can experience joy and peace.

But then again, I don't need you to tell me whether or not I have peace and joy, because I know for a fact that what you just said is complete rubbish.
It is fun that Finn can't see my posts since he has me on iggy. So I can say something without him attacking me or having to endure, well, you get the point.

So to the point . . . Let's say I am Finn and I believe like he does.

If I have joy and peace in what Finn believes I'd have to say this:

Eternal torment? It brings me great joy and peace knowing my loved ones are going to fry for eternity.

Eternal hell fire and damnation? It gives me great joy, even goosebumps and peace knowing my God brought people into the world knowing full well in advance that they would "choose" not to believe but my God created an eternal hell just for them.

If anyone has joy and peace believing such things, I would have to say something is definately wrong. Because if it were true that there was an eternal hell fire God could have no joy nor peace in knowing where the majority of mankind were headed and He would hardly share that joy or peace with any of his children.
 
Old 05-07-2010, 04:52 PM
 
15,029 posts, read 7,546,690 times
Reputation: 1975
Quote:
Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA View Post
I guess what you don't understand is that it is a choice we all have to make. Yes God reveals Himself to ALL people, but some people reject Him anyway. God does not force Himself on anyone. It's not that God is not willing, it's that people are not willing to believe and accept Him.
But that's not what you said. You said you can't change anyone's heart, only the Holy Spirit can? Wouldn't that include your own heart? Wouldn't it be necessary for the Holy Spirit to bring about the change of heart in you that made it possible for you to receive Him? Or didn't your heart need changing?
 
Old 05-07-2010, 04:53 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,289,114 times
Reputation: 420
Eusebius,

It is interesting that you weave us as being at peace and having fun over the fact that ET exists?
Why is that? It saddens us, but our God is just, and He is just according to those who serve Him, as well as those WHO DO NOT. This is one of those areas that WE LEAVE UP TO GOD TO DECIDE, as His counsel and edict is none of our concern, or is it fathomable in understanding.

Maybe you should step back from the tree of knowledge.
 
Old 05-07-2010, 04:54 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,685,493 times
Reputation: 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA View Post
I guess what you don't understand is that it is a choice we all have to make. Yes God reveals Himself to ALL people, but some people reject Him anyway. God does not force Himself on anyone. It's not that God is not willing, it's that people are not willing to believe and accept Him.
Many who believe now were at one point unwilling.
 
Old 05-07-2010, 04:55 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,685,493 times
Reputation: 639
I certainly am not one who thinks that only my point of view can bring peace and joy. To try to argue that mine cannot is just as foolish.

That is why I rejoice for whoever finds peace and freedom from bondage.
 
Old 05-07-2010, 04:59 PM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,437,909 times
Reputation: 989
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Eusebius,

It is interesting that you weave us as being at peace and having fun over the fact that ET exists?
Sorry but if you've been reading your little buddies posts (Finn's) you'd know he had joy and peace over the whole eternal torment stuff.

Quote:
Why is that? It saddens us, but our God is just, and He is just according to those who serve Him, as well as those WHO DO NOT. This is one of those areas that WE LEAVE UP TO GOD TO DECIDE, as His counsel and edict is none of our concern, or is it fathomable in understanding.

Maybe you should step back from the tree of knowledge.
Let's really think about that statement: "It saddens us, but our God is just." You'd think that if God pre-planned this eternal barbeque before the world came into existence just for those who didn't "choose" to believe that you'd be jumping up and down with joy unspeakable because God is so great to so such a diabolical thing. I mean, only God could do that! Right?

So you are saddened that you must think God is wrong to do such a thing. At least your heart is in the right place. But it really shows you don't approve what God has planned and is doing and will do.

I'm glad I no longer feel that way about my God.
 
Old 05-07-2010, 04:59 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,722,144 times
Reputation: 263
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Why on earth would I answer someone trying to put words in my mouth?????? Those are your words, not mine, so you can answer them yourself.
All I did was ask you if you disagreed with any of these statements, and since you didn't say you disagree, I'll take your reply to mean you agree with all of them.
 
Old 05-07-2010, 05:00 PM
 
Location: God's Country
21,418 posts, read 29,551,815 times
Reputation: 29927
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
But that's not what you said. You said you can't change anyone's heart, only the Holy Spirit can? Wouldn't that include your own heart? Wouldn't it be necessary for the Holy Spirit to bring about the change of heart in you that made it possible for you to receive Him? Or didn't your heart need changing?
Only the Holy Spirit can change someone's heart, but not everyone listens to the Holy Spirit and responds to the call. Some people make choice to ignore Him.
 
Old 05-07-2010, 05:03 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,685,493 times
Reputation: 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA View Post
Only the Holy Spirit can change someone's heart, but not everyone listens to the Holy Spirit and responds to the call. Some people make choice to ignore Him.

Many who believe now at one point ignored the Holy Spirit.
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