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Old 04-30-2010, 06:15 AM
 
7 posts, read 12,457 times
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From time to time I get inquiries from Christians, such as, "Is hell a real place?" or "Don't Hades, Sheol, Gehenna simply mean the grave?" I have received e-mail flatly stating that there is no such thing as hell, or a place of eternal punishment. On this page, I will review the meaning of the words " hades, gehenna, sheol, and hell."
You will note, that I said the meaning of the words hades, sheol, gehenna, & hell. All these words can be simply translated as, 'grave, pit, death, or hell.' However, their meaning is more involved than just a simple translation. We need to consider the meaning of these words to the authors of the original Bible manuscripts to be able to understand the concept they are trying to convey. Because of cultural and language differences reliance on simple word translation is very misleading; and many are using this to mislead others. Using the principles of [URL="http://acharlie.tripod.com/bible_study/effective.html"]Effective Bible Study will give a clearer meaning to the use of these words

The concept 'sheol' conveys is the 'the underworld'. The abode of the dead. A place: where there is no praise of God; where the wicked were sent for punishment.
A place of exile from God.
The righteous are not abandoned to it.
The place of torment, commonly called hell, where devils and damned spirits are; hither the souls of the wicked go immediately upon their departure from their bodies.


- The word 'hades' (hell) is derived from name 'Pluto' (Hades), who the ancient Romans & Greeks believed was the god of the underworld, the nether world, the realm of the dead. Therefore it conveys a 'dwelling place.'
'Gehenna' is derived from the Hebrew, 'Ge-Hinnom', the valley of Hinnom. A valley of Jerusalem that was used to dump dead animals and waste in. The heaps of refuse were then burned. It was figuratively used to designate 'a place of eternal dwelling and [URL="http://acharlie.tripod.com/bible_study/eternal_punishment.html"]eternal punishment. We can see that the words 'gehenna, sheol, hades (hell)' meant more to the authors of the original biblical manuscripts than simply a hole in the ground called a grave. These words signified to all the writers of the manuscripts, 'a dwelling place of eternal punishment'. This was, and is, the concept they meant their readers to envision "And in hell (hades) he lifted up his eyes, being in torments, and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am tormented in this flame. " Several Hebrew & Aramaic words were used to denote 'grave, sepulchre, tomb' by the authors of the original scriptural manuscripts. They are transliterated as: 'qatat, qeber, pathach, beiy, shachath, & qeburah'. The only Greek word, used by the authors of the original Bible manuscripts, to denote the grave, sepulchre, or tomb, was transliterated as, 'mnemeion'. The Hebrew words to signify 'death' were: 'maveth & muth' (the most common; occasionally used were 'mohth; tsalmaveth; & temuthah'. Several Greek words were used by the authors to signify 'death.' They were: 'thanatos & thanatoo'; occasionally used were 'teleute; echo; anairesis; & anaireo'. As you can see hell, hades, gehenna, and sheol were not used to denote the grave or death[SIZE=4]Further scriptural evidence showing that hades(hell), gehenna, & sheol, represent [URL="http://acharlie.tripod.com/bible_study/eternal_punishment.html"]Eternal Punishment

Last edited by Forrester-Place; 04-30-2010 at 06:22 AM.. Reason: html codes were showing

 
Old 04-30-2010, 06:41 AM
 
Location: SC Foothills
8,830 posts, read 9,746,380 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeallcomm View Post
Ilene....I cant explain how happy I am for you to see these truths for yourself. I, and I am sure all of us who are like minded, are excited for you also. It is an amazing transformation. I must chuckle a little for you though (in a nice way of course), because you will find yourself having to re-read the bible all over again with this new mind you are attaining. In turn, it will be exciting as well.

I have found, with this new way of 'seeing' and 'hearing', that it is just about impossible to explain these things to others who don't 'see' and 'hear' as we do. We must remember that God is in control of ALL things, therefore ALL people are were they are in there beliefs by HIS will. You mostlikely now understand why Paul was so joyous in his suffering for Christ. God bless you sister.
Thank you very much Joe!! And welcome to the forum!! I think you're right, I will have to read the Bible from cover to cover all over again now that I'm seeing with different eyes!! And it is impossible to explain these things to others...I was one of them up until just recently and all I could see was what I thought was the devil's scheme to deceive. Someone put it very nicely though in another thread, although it could be this one, about ET actually being the devil's deceit and not UR. I need to find that post! I have a whole lot to learn but what I'm already "seeing" and "hearing" is the complete opposite of what I just recently believed. It's quite an amazing thing that is happening to me! That can only be attributed to God.
 
Old 04-30-2010, 06:57 AM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,427,722 times
Reputation: 989
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forrester-Place View Post
The concept 'sheol' conveys is the 'the underworld'. The abode of the dead. A place: where there is no praise of God; where the wicked were sent for punishment.
A place of exile from God.
The righteous are not abandoned to it.
The place of torment, commonly called hell, where devils and damned spirits are; hither the souls of the wicked go immediately upon their departure from their bodies.
The righteous and the wicked both go to the same place upon death. That is what the Bible says. It is called Sheol (Hebrew) or the grave (English).

There are no "souls of the wicked" in a hell where devils and damned spirits are.

The bible does not say "the souls of the wicked go immediately [to hell] upon their departure from their bodies." So why say it?
 
Old 04-30-2010, 07:15 AM
 
Location: SC Foothills
8,830 posts, read 9,746,380 times
Reputation: 58197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Well, actually no one have not established anything about 'hell'. You thought Sheol/Hades was hell, but that is not the case, and the Bible proves it. Some people here are deliberately trying to mix definitions up so they can prove an unbiblical view. Can't you see how the universalists keep saying 'hell' doesn't exist, and to support the argument they they offer examples of Sheol/Hades, which is not hell to begin with. I do not believe they are ignorant about it, so it is a deliberate attempt to mislead people, and sadly I see that you are beginning to believe it. Keep reading the Bible because you are under spiritual attack. That is a fact, whether or not you realize it or not.
I can see there's no use in talking to you about it......I understand how difficult it is to see something when you're so heavily influenced by the years of teaching that are ingrained in you. I was the same way. And I can assure you I am NOT under any spiritual attack.......I am spirit filled and I can see quite clearly now what is the truth and what isn't. I pray that one day you will too.
 
Old 04-30-2010, 07:26 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,451 posts, read 31,862,344 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
The righteous and the wicked both go to the same place upon death. That is what the Bible says. It is called Sheol (Hebrew) or the grave (English).
No, that is incorrect. Before Christ's crusifiction, wicked went to the bad side of Hades, which is a place of torment, and the righteous went to Abrahams boson, which was the good side of Hades, also knows as paradise.

When Christ died on the cross he went to paradise aka good side of Hades aka Abrahams bosom, and led the righteous dead out of that place.

Ephesians 4:8-10 This is why it says: "When he ascended on high, he led captives in his train and gave gifts to men." (What does "he ascended" mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions ? He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.)

He took that side of Hades with him to heaven, and left the bad side where is it.

And when a believer dies he goes to be with the Lord in heaven.

2 Corinthians 5:8 We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord.

But when the unbelievers die, they still go to the bad side of Hades.

"And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, where 'their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched'." (Mark 9:47-48).

"But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars--their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death." (Revelation 21:8)

Be that Hades, or permanent hell it is not good. Hades, or its inhabitants, the unbelievers, will be thrown into lake of fire aka permanent hell on the day of judgement.

Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 04-30-2010 at 07:45 AM..
 
Old 04-30-2010, 07:28 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,451 posts, read 31,862,344 times
Reputation: 9399
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilene Wright View Post
I can see there's no use in talking to you about it......
You haven't answers any of my questions in the past, so why start now.
 
Old 04-30-2010, 08:01 AM
 
Location: SC Foothills
8,830 posts, read 9,746,380 times
Reputation: 58197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
You haven't answers any of my questions in the past, so why start now.
All of your questions have been answered, you just didn't like the answers. I'd love to stay and chat but I've got to get my day started. If you're referring to the transformation I spoke of, it is my belief (now) that all will be refined in the fire, not burning in it forever like was previously thought. I know you don't subscribe to that belief so I guess there's not much else to say on the matter, is there?
 
Old 04-30-2010, 08:53 AM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,427,722 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
No, that is incorrect. Before Christ's crusifiction, wicked went to the bad side of Hades, which is a place of torment, and the righteous went to Abrahams boson, which was the good side of Hades, also knows as paradise.
Only in a parable did that happen. Don't forget, according to the prodigal son parable he went to the pig farm when he died.

And if you are going to take the PARABLE of the rich man and Lazarus as what actually happens when one dies then you must also take the reason why they went to where they did: The only reason the rich man went to they bad side of Hades (as if there really is such a place) is because he got good things in this life. And the only reason Lazarus went to Abraham's bosom (as if there really is such a place) is because he got evil things in this life. So if you want to be assured of the good place, make sure you get lots of evil in this life.

Quote:
When Christ died on the cross he went to paradise aka good side of Hades aka Abrahams bosom, and led the righteous dead out of that place.

Ephesians 4:8-10 This is why it says: "When he ascended on high, he led captives in his train and gave gifts to men." (What does "he ascended" mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions ? He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.)

He took that side of Hades with him to heaven, and left the bad side where is it.
That's cute.
Years after Christ ascended into heaven John wrote: "And no one has ascended into heaven except He Who descends out of heaven, the Son of Mankind Who is in heaven" (John 3:13). So Christ, to this day, is the only one Who has ascended. The rest still wait for the resurrection. Otherwise, why even have a resurrection?

The Greek says "He led captivity captive." That doesn't mean He grabbed people out of Hades.
Paul wrote that the only time the believer meets Christ is when He comes again (which will be long after He ascended) and they meet Him in the air.

Quote:
And when a believer dies he goes to be with the Lord in heaven.

2 Corinthians 5:8 We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord.
It doesn't say when a believer dies he goes to be with the Lord in heaven.
Paul said he was prefering to be at home with the Lord. That only takes place when we meet the Lord in the air AS A GROUP where the dead rise first and the living are changed and AS A GROUP they meet the Lord in the air, not one at a time and not some from Hades and then some from this or that group.

Quote:
But when the unbelievers die, they still go to the bad side of Hades.

"And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, where 'their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched'." (Mark 9:47-48).
Mark 9:47-48 actually has: "thrown into Gehenna." There really is not fire in Hades or Sheol or the Tomb or a river flowing through the tombs or worms. Well, maybe worms in tombs but not fire or rivers like in the rich man and Lazarus parable.

This is what Jesus was alluding to:

Isaiah 66:23-24 CLV And it comes, according to the monthly quota in its
month, and according to the sabbath quota in its sabbath, all flesh shall
come to worship before Me in Jerusalem,says Yahweh." (24) And they
fare forth and see the corpses of the mortals, the transgressors against
Me, for their worm shall not die, and their fire shall not be quenched, and
they become a repulsion to all flesh."

Their dead bodies will be cast into the trash dump called Gehenna where the fires burning the city trash will burn the dead bodies i.e. the corpses.


Quote:
"But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars--their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death." (Revelation 21:8)
The lake of fire is not Gehenna.

Quote:
Be that Hades, or permanent hell it is not good. Hades, or its inhabitants, the unbelievers, will be thrown into lake of fire aka permanent hell on the day of judgement.
But according to you, no one ever gets out of the bad side of Hades [i.e. "Hell"] but in revelation everyone get out of Hell and goes to the lake of fire.

The lake of fire can't be eternal either because that would contradict 1 Timothy 2:4-6 and you know, we can't have contradictions in the bible!
 
Old 04-30-2010, 08:54 AM
 
Location: Florida
580 posts, read 631,917 times
Reputation: 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
What makes you think there is a process of transformation in Hades? Where did you get that idea? That is all I am asking. What are the dead being transformed into, and do you have Biblical verses to back up the belief that the dead transform into something in Hades?

Yes, I have studied and prayed, and the more I do, the more I believe.

PS Hades/Sheol and eternal hell are not the same place. Nothing in the parable suggests it is permanent. Hades is a temporary place where the dead went, and it had a good side for the righteous, and a bad side for the unrighteous, and the two sides were divided. After Christ died he emptied the good side so as of today it is empty. And it stays empty because believers go to heaven when they die. However the bad side is not empty because unbelievers still go there. After the final judgement those who are in bad side of Hades (unbelievers), will end up in permanent hell aka the lake of fire.

Keep reading, and you will come to see the truth again.

After his death Christ decended to Hades, made a proclamation to his people, and then acended out of Haded with the believers

Ephesians 4:8-10

This is why it says:
"When he ascended on high,
he led captives in his train
and gave gifts to men." 9(What does "he ascended" mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions? 10He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.)
Just adding...
Matthew 27: 51At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook and the rocks split. 52The tombs broke open and the bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. 53They came out of the tombs, and after Jesus' resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many people.
 
Old 04-30-2010, 10:05 AM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,427,722 times
Reputation: 989
Quote:
Originally Posted by mercy777 View Post
Just adding...
Matthew 27: 51At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook and the rocks split. 52The tombs broke open and the bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. 53They came out of the tombs, and after Jesus' resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many people.
And they all died again because John wrote that no one has ascended into heaven except Jesus.
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