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Old 05-11-2010, 08:53 AM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,702,040 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
My God is loveable, because He gave His own Son for us.
My God is Love. He was Love even before He gave His Son for us. He never changes. He is always, always Love.

 
Old 05-11-2010, 09:34 AM
 
Location: SC Foothills
8,830 posts, read 9,643,310 times
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[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post

My God is loveable, because He gave His own Son for us.
YOUR God? Are we now serving different Gods? OUR God is THE GOD, and He IS love. We have no clue as to what that means.

Quote:
Let me ask you this, if you had a son, and it meant giving his life, so that everyone won't die, would you do it? But then again, if you don't have any children, you couldn't answer this question, because you don't know how it feels. Secondly, man is not "of God" as Christ is, and man is a differenet being than Christ is, Christ is God in the flesh, and we are made from dust. Anyone? So the question is, would you give the life of your very own son from your loins, for the rest of mankind, that are not your direct sons and heirs, and WHO ARE REBELLIOUS, TRANSGRESSORS OF HIS LOVE AND COVENANT, AS WELL AS STIFFNECKED!?
Ok, I'll bite. I DO have a son, and I would remorsefully but willingly give his life for all of humanity if it meant all would be saved. He would willingly do so himself, as it would be an infinitesimal sacrifice in his eyes, because he understands and loves the Lord. Now here's the kicker....he doesn't need to do that because Jesus Christ already DID!!! He gave His life for all of humanity, and all will be reconciled so your point is moot.
 
Old 05-11-2010, 03:55 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,120,487 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilene Wright View Post
YOUR God? Are we now serving different Gods? OUR God is THE GOD, and He IS love. We have no clue as to what that means.

Ok, I'll bite. I DO have a son, and I would remorsefully but willingly give his life for all of humanity if it meant all would be saved. He would willingly do so himself, as it would be an infinitesimal sacrifice in his eyes, because he understands and loves the Lord. Now here's the kicker....he doesn't need to do that because Jesus Christ already DID!!! He gave His life for all of humanity, and all will be reconciled so your point is moot.
Indeed, and even Abraham would have done it, had he not been stopped ...

Of course, why wouldn't you give what you cherish the most to save the world? Whether it be the life of your child or you very own life ... ?

No greater love has any person than to lay down their life for their loved ones.
 
Old 05-11-2010, 06:36 PM
 
Location: Nashville, TN
2,031 posts, read 2,654,797 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
Indeed, and even Abraham would have done it, had he not been stopped ...

Of course, why wouldn't you give what you cherish the most to save the world? Whether it be the life of your child or you very own life ... ?

No greater love has any person than to lay down their life for their loved ones.
I think this way of thinking takes the credit off of Jesus. I wouldn't go to hell to save everyone because I love the Lord more than I love people. I couldn't spend eternity without Him. Call me selfish, I don't care. It's wrong to put other people before God. I am in awe that Jesus would do this for us! If you or other people would do it, that makes Jesus' sacrifice look like no big deal because everyone else would do the same. Actually you would be doing more than Jesus because Jesus doesn't have to spend eternity without His Father. I don't think it's very loving to the Lord to say that you would put people before Him.
 
Old 05-11-2010, 07:45 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,120,487 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CantWait2Leave View Post
I think this way of thinking takes the credit off of Jesus. I wouldn't go to hell to save everyone because I love the Lord more than I love people. I couldn't spend eternity without Him. Call me selfish, I don't care. It's wrong to put other people before God. I am in awe that Jesus would do this for us! If you or other people would do it, that makes Jesus' sacrifice look like no big deal because everyone else would do the same. Actually you would be doing more than Jesus because Jesus doesn't have to spend eternity without His Father. I don't think it's very loving to the Lord to say that you would put people before Him.

No one said anything about going to hell, we said die ...

I dont believe in hell, i think its just the vain imaginations of false teachers. the only real hell is the proverbial one which we as humans suffer here on earth.

Though if i did have to spend eternity in hell, in order to save everyone else in the world, then i still would, because i would be in hell anyway knowing that most other people were there.

And if i truly believed God would cause most of the people in the world to suffer in hell forever, i wouldn't truly love him to begin with. The very reason that i love God so much is because he puts everyone else before himself. He is the greatest servant of all humanity that ever existed. I don't expect you to understand at this time. I believe one day you will ...

And in fact it only means that I have the love of God and am like Christ in that i would be willing also to die for my enemies if he had not already done it.

That is being Honest.

You wrote ...

Quote:
that makes Jesus' sacrifice look like no big deal because everyone else would do the same
Obviously you wouldn't ...

Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 05-11-2010 at 08:06 PM..
 
Old 05-12-2010, 12:41 AM
 
Location: Nashville, TN
2,031 posts, read 2,654,797 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
No one said anything about going to hell, we said die ...

And if i truly believed God would cause most of the people in the world to suffer in hell forever, i wouldn't truly love him to begin with. The very reason that i love God so much is because he puts everyone else before himself. He is the greatest servant of all humanity that ever existed. I don't expect you to understand at this time. I believe one day you will ...
I'm sorry, I misunderstood what you meant. I thought you meant take the place of those in hell.

I think it's sad that your love for God is conditional. This is hard for you to imagine, I know, but let's just say when you die, hell really does exist. What would you say to God? You wouldn't love Him anymore? God does love everyone and this is why He allows them to go where they want to go. He loves them so much that He won't force them to be with Him. How is it love if it's forced upon?
 
Old 05-12-2010, 12:52 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,276,533 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CantWait2Leave View Post
I think this way of thinking takes the credit off of Jesus. I wouldn't go to hell to save everyone because I love the Lord more than I love people.
So you missed this passage apparently:

1 John 4:20 If anyone says, "I love God," yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen.

If you love GOD whom you CAN'T see more than you love people who you CAN see.. then you truly don't love either... do you? Showing love to other people is showing GOD!
1 John 2:11 But the one who hates his brother is in the darkness and walks in the darkness, and does not know where he is going because the darkness has blinded his eyes.

Do you truly think God wants humans to suffer so much that he would make YOU suffer eternally for offering to take the people's place in hell? Isn't that the greatest show of love a man can achieve? To give his life to save a brother/friend?

Yet you seem to think that spending eternity with Jesus while those you love burn in agony for eternity will be pleasurable? I would rather be in hell.
 
Old 05-12-2010, 01:01 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,276,533 times
Reputation: 1689
Quote:
Originally Posted by CantWait2Leave View Post
I'm sorry, I misunderstood what you meant. I thought you meant take the place of those in hell.

I think it's sad that your love for God is conditional. This is hard for you to imagine, I know, but let's just say when you die, hell really does exist. What would you say to God? You wouldn't love Him anymore? God does love everyone and this is why He allows them to go where they want to go. He loves them so much that He won't force them to be with Him. How is it love if it's forced upon?
Do you believe all will bow and acknowledge Jesus is Lord? So you believe unbelievers will be FORCED to bow and acknowledge Jesus is Lord before being thrown into the fire that burns them forever? If so, then God is perfectly fine with them being forced to bow and acknowledge Jesus is Lord but not perfectly fine with them being forced to be saved?

Interesting but inconsistent!

What does the love of the person matter?

"We love because he first loved us." It is the love of God that brings all things he wills to completion.

Who chooses whom? "according as He did choose us in him before the foundation of the world, for our being holy and unblemished before Him, in love," (Eph. 1:4)
 
Old 05-12-2010, 01:34 AM
 
Location: Nashville, TN
2,031 posts, read 2,654,797 times
Reputation: 523
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Do you believe all will bow and acknowledge Jesus is Lord? So you believe unbelievers will be FORCED to bow and acknowledge Jesus is Lord before being thrown into the fire that burns them forever? If so, then God is perfectly fine with them being forced to bow and acknowledge Jesus is Lord but not perfectly fine with them being forced to be saved?

Interesting but inconsistent!

What does the love of the person matter?

"We love because he first loved us." It is the love of God that brings all things he wills to completion.

Who chooses whom? "according as He did choose us in him before the foundation of the world, for our being holy and unblemished before Him, in love," (Eph. 1:4)
I don't know if they will be forced to bow and acknowledge Jesus is Lord. I think they might do that because they are in His presence and know the Truth, but the Bible doesn't say you get a second chance after death.

Forced love is no love at all.
 
Old 05-12-2010, 01:39 AM
 
Location: Nashville, TN
2,031 posts, read 2,654,797 times
Reputation: 523
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
So you missed this passage apparently:

1 John 4:20 If anyone says, "I love God," yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen.

If you love GOD whom you CAN'T see more than you love people who you CAN see.. then you truly don't love either... do you? Showing love to other people is showing GOD!
1 John 2:11 But the one who hates his brother is in the darkness and walks in the darkness, and does not know where he is going because the darkness has blinded his eyes.

Do you truly think God wants humans to suffer so much that he would make YOU suffer eternally for offering to take the people's place in hell? Isn't that the greatest show of love a man can achieve? To give his life to save a brother/friend?

Yet you seem to think that spending eternity with Jesus while those you love burn in agony for eternity will be pleasurable? I would rather be in hell.
Who says I hate my brother? God isn't making an offer because Jesus already did this. It's all hypothetical.

To the bolded part: you don't know what you are saying. If you would rather be with people forever than with Jesus forever, I don't know what to say to you. It doesn't seem you love God very much if you would choose them over Him.
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