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Okay, ILNC. We could do this dance all day. I know, I used to dance it too. So, it wasn't really the work of the Spirit changing your heart ... it was you. Somehow you were more humble, more worthy, more able and willing to receive Christ than other people. God created you that way, apparently. He created billions of people not to be, and so they must pay the penalty for being created less worthy or humble or willing than you. The penalty being eternal torment in hell. He didn't love those people enough to keep them from that unfathomably horrendous fate, and in your mind, that makes sense.
Do you feel joy when your loved ones suffer with cancer, or when a baby is born with brain damage?
I have joy and peace and comfort knowing that they will be healed one day. While they suffer temporarily I have compassion for them.
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Don't try to change the point: Accrding to your UR belief only a very small fraction of the population can experience joy and peace. Does that seem fair to you?
I don't get why you are saying only a small fraction will experience joy and peace? According to UR belief, everyone will have joy and peace eventually.
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I never said I celebrate people going to hell, that is just you twisting and spinning things again. Death, hell, God, heaven and eternal life are facts of life, whether you like them or not.
I never said you celebrate people going to hell either. You claimed joy and peace, but certainly you won't have joy and peace in your lost loved ones.
You try to compare this to cancer or another terrible disease which are only temporary ailments. But according to your own doctrine you won't be able to feel joy and peace over your lost loved ones for eternity.
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I have joy and peace in my faith and in Holy Spirit, but only a fool thinks that should mean I celebrate other people's misfortune. Get a grip.
I never said you celebrate other people's misfortune - that is you "twisting and spinning". I agree you can have some joy and peace in your own salvation and knowledge of the Lord, but like I said you won't have complete joy and peace in your lost loved ones. And that would be FOREVER - according to your own doctrine.
Surely it is ridiculous for you to say everything has already been set right when we witness injustice every day in this life we live.
The scriptures never say, where Death, Sorrow and Tears are abolished, in the New Heavens and Earth, would be free from the existence of sin.
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Things will not be set right until every injustice has been corrected and all have been reconciled and come to understand knowledge of the truth.
1 Tim 2 again.....see above post. If not....look it up.
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Unless you mean to say - from God's perspective - its set right, and we are just waiting to see it play out in the realm of time?
That's the only perspective we need to know. Man's perspective is not the issue, as we, in Christ, are free from Death, Sin and Tears.
When God sees me, He sees the blood of Christ all over me.
I come unblemished.
Okay, ILNC. We could do this dance all day. I know, I used to dance it too. So, it wasn't really the work of the Spirit changing your heart ... it was you. Somehow you were more humble, more worthy, more able and willing to receive Christ than other people. God created you that way, apparently. He created billions of people not to be, and so they must pay the penalty for being created less worthy or humble or willing than you. The penalty being eternal torment in hell. He didn't love those people enough to keep them from that unfathomably horrendous fate, and in your mind, that makes sense.
Did Hitler profess his faith in Christ? Romans 10:9
Most likely no, since it is claimed he commited suicide.
And no, that isn't justice, it's called spitting on the cross.
You mean your sunday school lesson...ransom paid for a slave to sin....and that slave is freed to whom? Freed to Christ....Again...Romans 10:9 a referrence point for you.
DO you really want me to go there again ....let's do it real quick like....1 Tim 2:4-6 HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH A DIVINE EDICT AND DECREE THAT GOD WILL SAVE ALL MEN. The text does not support your view in any way shape or form. What it does support contextually and linguistically, is that God desires that all men come to the knowledge, but won't.
LOL...I think that would be a great assignment for you. I already know what it takes to have my sins washed with His blood. Do you?
Excuse me but that's bull-hockey. I NEVER had joy and peace thinking that the vast majority of all who ever lived were going to fry for eternity. If you've got joy and peace believing that then you seriously need to take a look at yourself. And scripture. I'm really starting to think some folks revel in the eternal torment idea.
Thankyou for your honesty Ilene. I didn't have joy and peace knowing that most people I met were probably destined for hell either.
I don't think Finn is saying that he gets joy and peace knowing others will be in torment forever. But I have to wonder if Finn has thought about it much, because in my case worrying about others in hell greatly diminished my joy and peace in the Lord.
The only way I had joy and peace was to compartmentalize - not worry about the lost - and know that at least I would be saved (even though sometimes I wondered on that too - it was hard to know which doctrines I had to keep).
I don't get why you are saying only a small fraction will experience joy and peace? According to UR belief, everyone will have joy and peace eventually.
You don't get it? You specifically said so. You said only belief in UR can bring joy and peace. Now you're flip flopping to something else.
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I never said you celebrate people going to hell either. You claimed joy and peace, but certainly you won't have joy and peace in your lost loved ones.
Yes, that is exactly what you suggested.
Hell is a fact of life and it won't go away by denial. It is the same as denying that you will die.
The scriptures never say, where Death, Sorrow and Tears are abolished, in the New Heavens and Earth, would be free from the existence of sin.
You are totally missing the point. You said everything is already "set right", yet injustice happens every day in our life. Is it right that people are murdered every day? Wars still happen? People are dying in 3rd world countries, and everywhere, without even knowing about God or salvation in Christ? And everything is "set right"?
You don't get it? You specifically said so. You said only belief in UR can bring joy and peace. Now you're flip flopping to something else.
Before you accuse me of "flip flopping", you are not thinking this through. One day everyone will understand the truth of UR, even you Finn (I know you deny it right now). One day every knee will bow and every tongue will confess and swear allegiance to the Lord. Then all will have complete joy and peace.
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Yes, that is exactly what you suggested.
No, its not. You cannot claim full joy and peace while also knowing people you dearly love are being tormented forever. That's just the way it is.
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Hell is a fact of life and it won't go away by denial. It is the same as denying that you will die.
Everyone knows they will die and has seen other people die. No one has seen hell or seen anyone go there. All we can know about hell is what we learn from the scriptures. And that is the topic of this thread: to address the mistranslations of the word "hell", and to address the meaning of spiritual fire as it is shown in the bible.
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Good post! 