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No confusion. In truth, bringing clarity. Broadly, You're either preterist or futurist with respect to WHEN you believe the foretold events of biblical prophecy unfolded, or are yet to unfold.
I as a preterist, would like to suggest that most problems of interpretation of the text of scripture lies in "audience relevance" . The letters of the New Testament were written to living breathing people 2 thousand years ago. We need to be reading the NT as such. We are reading other peoples mail. Asking, what were they going through? What did the letter mean to them, then and there? There are great truths in these letters for us today but if we read them as written to us we pervert the text.
Ironically, last time I checked Sciotamicks is no longer a full Preterist and I think he even has issues with many partial Preterist ideas eventhough he still shares a few if I remember correctly. He was one of the best at defending it back when he was active here but later found reasons not to believe it anymore. I'm personally not 100% opposed to certain partial Preterist beliefs though since there are alot of historical coincidences.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HushWhisper
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Probably a good standard response from you since discussing scriptural viability of "-isms" is well above your particular intellectual ultra-fundi paygrade. Much easier to say "you're all going to hell!"
Last edited by Jrhockney; 12-28-2015 at 11:44 AM..
The writer of Hebrews after quoting Jeremiah 31 regarding the New Covenant states:
When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear (Heb. 8:13).
Why would the writer state that the Old Covenant was “becoming” obsolete and “ready” to disappear? Most of us understand that this had already taken place at the cross 30 years prior to the recording of these statements. These extraordinary words provide us with a better understanding of the often disputed relationship between the cross and the destruction of Jerusalem. Briefly, the question is settled when we understand character of the age in which the apostles lived. Through the cross, the Lord Jesus brought about the end of the law as a covenantal basis for man’s relationship to God:
For Christ is the end of the law for [i.e. as the standard of] righteousness to everyone who believes. (Rom 10:4)
This is what we, as Christians, commonly understand. What is not often recognized however, is that the law as an age of time remained in transition (as we observed in Hebrews) over the next 40 years:
. . . The Holy Spirit is signifying this, that the way into the holy place has not yet been disclosed while the outer tabernacle is still standing, which is a symbol for the [biblical author’s] present time. Accordingly both gifts and sacrifices are offered which cannot make the worshiper perfect in conscience . . . (Heb 9:8-9)
God himself determinedly brought about its end through the events of 70 AD (or 73 if you prefer) which removed the objects standing in opposition the new economy of Jesus.
Matthew 24 and the whole book of Revelation is fulfilled every time a person fulfills them in any generation, they are always being fulfilled but only a few people in each generation fulfill them. The first and last thing said in Revelation is that everything written in the book MUST SHORTLY come to pass. Every Gentile who begins walking in the prophesies of the book, he fulfills what is written in Matthew 24 and Revelation.
The Preterist, or Preterism, the doctrine have one problem. as our brother Thomas Ice points out in his article, quote,
Preterists argue that major prophetic portions of Scripture such as the Olivet Discourse and the Book of Revelation were fulfilled in events surrounding the A.D. 70 destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans. Preterists believe that they are compelled to take such a view because Matthew 24:34 and its parallel passages say that "this generation will not pass away until all these things take place." This means it had to take place in the first century, they argue. Revelation, they advocate, says something similar in the passages that say Christ is coming "quickly" or that His return is "at hand." Having settled in their mind that these prophecies had to take place in the first century, they believe they are justified in making the rest of the language fit into a local (Jerusalem), instead of a worldwide fulfillment. Most Preterists believe that we are currently living in at least an inaugurated new heavens and new earth, since all the Book of Revelation had to have a first century fulfillment.
here are the two sticking points.
#1. "this generation will not pass away until all these things take place"
#2. "they advocate, says something similar in the passages that say Christ is coming "quickly" or that His return is "at hand."
let's answer these questions and eliminate any doubt.
A. "this generation". and B. "the Lord Jesus return".
the answer is, the Lord Jesus did return, but not in 70 AD. he returned on the day of Pentecost before 70 AD.
scripture, Mark 9:1 "And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power".
Luke 9:27 "But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God".
Well those standing there are "This generation", audience relevance
now, either there are some very old people still walking around today, or the Lord didn't lie and returned before some died, and they saw the Kingdom of God with POWER. How did he do it?
scripture, John 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
John 14:17 "Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. (the Kingdom within)
John 14:18 "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
STOP, the Lord Jesus just told you that he is the Spirit, the holy Spirit. and when did he the Holy Spirit come? on the day of Pentecost, per Acts chapter 2. lets continue
John 14:19 "Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also".
now let's back this up. John 14:21 "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
here the Lord Jesus said that he would "MANIFEST" himself, himself, himself, to them. when did this happen?, Judas ask the right question, the very next verse, John 14:22 "Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?". (the world did not see the Spirit)
excellent question, he the Lord Jesus manifested himself in the Spiritual Gifts. WHEN?
Acts 2:1 "And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
Acts 2:2 "And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
Acts 2:3 "And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
Acts 2:4 "And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance".
THIS IS THE "MANIFESTATION" JUDAS ASKED ABOUT IN JOHN 14. and these gifts, including the speaking in tongues are confirmed in 1 Corinthians 12:7-11. notice how verse 7 validate the manifestation. "But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal". this is the manifestation Judas asked, and was fulfilled on Pentecost.
so knowing this, that the Lord Jesus did return in "THIS GENERATION", audience relevance, and some standing did not taste death before Pentecost, it was a Spiritual return, the establishing of the KINGDOM OF GOD.
his bodily return is yet to happen, Revelation 1:7 "Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen". and Hebrews 9:28 "So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation". there it is"APPEAR" the second time. the first time in natural flesh, now this time in Glorified flesh.
the world didn't see his first return, neither did the preterist, for it was a Spiritual return. for if they would have known this, thay would have not banked their doctrine on the false understanding of "THIS GENERATION" til he comes. this kills Preterism dead as a door nail.
they banked their beliefs, and build their doctrine on sand instead of the ROCK.
Ironically, last time I checked Sciotamicks is no longer a full Preterist and I think he even has issues with many partial Preterist ideas eventhough he still shares a few if I remember correctly. He was one of the best at defending it back when he was active here but later found reasons not to believe it anymore. I'm personally not 100% opposed to certain partial Preterist beliefs though since there are alot of historical coincidences.
Probably a good standard response from you since discussing scriptural viability of "-isms" is well above your particular intellectual ultra-fundi paygrade. Much easier to say "you're all going to hell!"
Thanks Jr, you’re right. I left the view in 2011 and have been advocating against all forms since 2016.
like futurism preterism was invented by the jesuits who are counter reformationists. preterism like futurism ignore 1200 years of the dark ages under papal rule where millions of people who don't submit to papal rule are labelled heretics and are murdered in crusades and inquisitions
Hey Mike! It’s going well, thank you. I’m working towards my mDiv now, Biblical Studies with a focus on Biblical languages. How have you been?
I'm doing fine aside from the fact that this heat is wearing me down. Too many days of triple digit temps. Getting too old to be able to tolerate it. They should be about done though.
That's great that you're working toward your mDiv. And a focus on the Biblical languages will serve you well. Do you intend to become a pastor or go in a different direction, such as teaching in seminary or Bible college?
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