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Old 04-30-2010, 05:24 PM
 
Location: Rapid City, SD
723 posts, read 858,976 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifesigns64 View Post
Colossians 2:14-16 so clearly states the weekly Sabbath was nailed to cross and abolished that Sabbatarians are at a loss to know what to do with it!

"Having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees AGAINST US and which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. When He had disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public display of them, having triumphed over them through Him. Therefore let no one act as your judge in regard to FOOD OR DRINK or in respect to a festival or a NEW MOONor a Sabbath dayS- things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ." (Col 2:14-16)

Jesus is our Sabbath rest . . .

Hello Lifesigns,

The section you put in bold (in black) is correct, but which law that was nailed to the cross you have all wrong.


HEBREWS 10:1 "For THE LAW HAVING A SHADOW OF THINGS TO COME, and not the very image of the things, CAN NEVER WITH THOSE SACRIFICES which they offered YEAR BY YEAR continually MAKE THE COMERS THEREUNTO PERFECT"

The book of the law is the law having the shadow of Jesus Christ Himself. It contained the sacrifices year by year!! And it would have never made us perfect!! There is only one sacrifice that will make us perfect. And it took place around 2000 years ago.

DEUTERONOMY 31:26 "Take this BOOK OF THE LAW, and PUT IT IN THE SIDE OF THE ARK OF THE COVENANT OF THE LORD YOUR GOD, that it may be there as a WITNESS AGAINST THEE"

So the book of the law was commanded by God to be put in THE SIDE of the ark of the covenant and was A WITNESS AGAINST THEE.

Hmmmm.......... That seems to match the law that was nailed to his cross as a witness against thee!!! It was put in the side of the ark. The ten commandments were placed INSIDE the ark!!!!

As for sabbath dayS (plural) there were many cerimonial sabbaths contained in the book of the law within the feast days!!

If God was speaking of His fourth commandment, wouldn't the verses that precede the sabbath verse match with the ten commandments???

Well it is an absolutely PERFECT fit with the book of the law.

OBSERVE:

LEVITICUS 23:37 " These are the feasts of the Lord, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, to offer an offering made by fire unto the Lord, a burnt offering, and a MEAT OFFERING, a sacrifice, and DRINK OFFERINGS, every thing upon his day."

Show me verses within the ten commandments that match the verses in Colossians 2: 14-17 like I have done with the book of the law.

The memorial of blowing of trumpets was also a cerimonial sabbath!!!

LEVITICUS 23:24 "..in the first day of the month, shall ye have a sabbath, a memorial of blowing of trumpets, a holy convocation."

Not only that!! But the new moon was also connected to the blowing of trumpets!!

PSALM 81:3 " BLOW UP THE TRUMPET in the NEW MOON, in the time appointed, on our solemn FEAST DAY."

How anyone can mistake those verses in Colossians for the ten commandments is beyond me.

But as I said; if you can match up the verses within the ten commandments better than I have just showed with Moses' book of the law, then I will change what I believe!!

But it cannot be done, because God does NOT make mistakes!!


GOD BLESS!!!
WITH LOVE,
DALE

Last edited by ALMOST2L8; 04-30-2010 at 05:30 PM.. Reason: correction
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Old 05-01-2010, 06:56 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,825 posts, read 9,821,504 times
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"having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away,"
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Old 05-01-2010, 07:33 PM
 
Location: Hagerman, Idaho
2,219 posts, read 4,844,894 times
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I'm still trying real hard to wrap my mind around WHY xtians have this motivation to do away with everything the Messiah stood for and taught along with HIS Talmadim. Either there is such a movement started by the Church of Rome with the inception of the so called "church" that there are blinders placed on xtians that have them worshiping the Messiah and not the Father YHVH(as the Messiah insisted followers of HIM do). I'm not about to do some so called scriptural jousting with you all as you have NO desire to see truth. You've already made up your mind everything has been done away with, and you're all going on a nice airborne ride up in the sky before the tribulation (contrary to scripture) and have this nice greasy grace ride and it's all been done for you and you have NOTHING left to do...just have faith and you're done. You obviously completely ignore all of Exodus, Deuteronomy, Leviticus, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Yochanon (John) Mattetyahu (Matthew) and Colossians and Revelation. It is plainly stated in all of those scriptures WHO provides Salvation, and to WHOM it will be given, and that we ARE to follow HIS Word AND Commandments. I give up. You just won't see it so there's no point in arguing any further. There are NONE so blind as those that will NOT see. HE had it right there........
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Old 05-01-2010, 07:57 PM
 
701 posts, read 658,705 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
"having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away,"
Clearly you did not watch the video. Also, could you please name one of the 10C that is "against" us or that stands "opposed" to us?
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Old 05-01-2010, 08:56 PM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,375,005 times
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Well, the thing about being in bondage, is that you must do what the masters say.

This includes working on Sat if they demand it.

But, having said that,,,there is nothing wrong with fellowshipping with other people if work must be done.

Not all of us can afford the luxury of taking off on the Sabbath. But we ALWAYS have the luxury of witnessing our King to others.

It is such a shame that people place SOOO much emphasis on the seventh day Sabbath, but yet most Christians fail in the very first commandment. They havee no idea what 'god' means, so they worship what they do not know. Other gods, that is.

Jesus Himself did not condemn those who were working on the Sabbath, trying to eat. So, who is our judge? God, or man?
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Old 05-01-2010, 09:20 PM
 
701 posts, read 658,705 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
Well, the thing about being in bondage, is that you must do what the masters say.

This includes working on Sat if they demand it.

But, having said that,,,there is nothing wrong with fellowshipping with other people if work must be done.

Not all of us can afford the luxury of taking off on the Sabbath. But we ALWAYS have the luxury of witnessing our King to others.

It is such a shame that people place SOOO much emphasis on the seventh day Sabbath, but yet most Christians fail in the very first commandment. They havee no idea what 'god' means, so they worship what they do not know. Other gods, that is.

Jesus Himself did not condemn those who were working on the Sabbath, trying to eat. So, who is our judge? God, or man?


I fully believe that no commandment is above another in regards to our obedience, however, the reason so many feel that excessive emphasis is placed on the 7th day Sabbath, is because it is the only commandment that is in contention amongst Christians. I've never heard another Christian ever seek to argue the validity of any of the other 9 commandments, but when it comes to the 4th one it is a whole different story. You ask a very valid question in "who is our judge God or man?", but that also raises the question of who's law we will follow, God's or man's? I always say man's so long as it is not in violation of God's, but what is man to do when it is? Put their faith and trust in God or man? I have had plenty of jobs or job offers in which that question was asked of me, and every time I stood for God's law, He always provided for me. I have talked to countless Christians who stood up for the law of God in opposition to the dictates of man, and God has provided for them time and time again. When does Christ ever call us to a life of luxury? He asks us to take up our cross and follow Him. When has cross bearing ever been luxurious? Christ knows the financial responsibilities and challenges you face. He knows you might have a family to support, but the Christ I know has promised me that if I stand for truth He will always provide for me. Would a Christian steal if their job demanded or would they stand for Christ? Would a Christian take the name of God in vain if their job demanded it, or would they stand for Christ? Would a Christian lie if their job demanded it, or would they stand for Christ? How could a Christian witness to fellow workers if they capitulated on any of those things? Are they not a better witness for standing in truth for Christ?
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Old 05-01-2010, 10:05 PM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,375,005 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HalfNelson View Post
I fully believe that no commandment is above another in regards to our obedience, however, the reason so many feel that excessive emphasis is placed on the 7th day Sabbath, is because it is the only commandment that is in contention amongst Christians. I've never heard another Christian ever seek to argue the validity of any of the other 9 commandments, but when it comes to the 4th one it is a whole different story. You ask a very valid question in "who is our judge God or man?", but that also raises the question of who's law we will follow, God's or man's? I always say man's so long as it is not in violation of God's, but what is man to do when it is? Put their faith and trust in God or man? I have had plenty of jobs or job offers in which that question was asked of me, and every time I stood for God's law, He always provided for me. I have talked to countless Christians who stood up for the law of God in opposition to the dictates of man, and God has provided for them time and time again. When does Christ ever call us to a life of luxury? He asks us to take up our cross and follow Him. When has cross bearing ever been luxurious? Christ knows the financial responsibilities and challenges you face. He knows you might have a family to support, but the Christ I know has promised me that if I stand for truth He will always provide for me. Would a Christian steal if their job demanded or would they stand for Christ? Would a Christian take the name of God in vain if their job demanded it, or would they stand for Christ? Would a Christian lie if their job demanded it, or would they stand for Christ? How could a Christian witness to fellow workers if they capitulated on any of those things? Are they not a better witness for standing in truth for Christ?
I put my trust in God, period. If I am called to be in the business that I am in, rest assurred, there is a purpose in it.

But, back to my original point, being in bondage does not release one from the obligations of said bondage. Sure, Christ set us free, totally. This I believe. But with freedom comes with great responsibility. Choosing not to work for a company because they refuse to let one have off on Sat, might actually work against God. He might have a higher purpose for you. His ways, are not our ways. After all, it is His Sabbath.

And I am positive that no honest believing Christian would ever lie, steal, or any other sin in the name of their job.

But, let us not make the 10 Commandments an idol, either. I know from reading some of the SDA website stuff, that they most assuredly do. There is so much emphasis on the 4th commandment, they have neglected the very first one. Why? Because the 4th is their call. It is what separates them from the rest who worship on Sunday. They see the ones who worship on sunday as part of the harlot church. Or her daughters. Now that is stretching it out a bit. We are called to announce our faith in Christ, I agree. But when legalism becomes the primary goal of an announcement, then how are they different than the Pharisees, or the Fundamentalists?

It is all part of the divisions in the Church body.

We need to get back to focusing on what it means to worship God. Honoring Him as God, alone. The depraved mind comes from those who do NOT do this, per Romans 1. Then, for them? Anything goes, sin wise. 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8tth, 9th, or 10th. Even those who KNOW the right thing to do, and do NOT do it, it is sin to them.

So, how far do we take this?
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Old 05-01-2010, 10:47 PM
 
701 posts, read 658,705 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
I put my trust in God, period. If I am called to be in the business that I am in, rest assurred, there is a purpose in it.

But, back to my original point, being in bondage does not release one from the obligations of said bondage. Sure, Christ set us free, totally. This I believe. But with freedom comes with great responsibility. Choosing not to work for a company because they refuse to let one have off on Sat, might actually work against God. He might have a higher purpose for you. His ways, are not our ways. After all, it is His Sabbath.

And I am positive that no honest believing Christian would ever lie, steal, or any other sin in the name of their job.

But, let us not make the 10 Commandments an idol, either. I know from reading some of the SDA website stuff, that they most assuredly do. There is so much emphasis on the 4th commandment, they have neglected the very first one. Why? Because the 4th is their call. It is what separates them from the rest who worship on Sunday. They see the ones who worship on sunday as part of the harlot church. Or her daughters. Now that is stretching it out a bit. We are called to announce our faith in Christ, I agree. But when legalism becomes the primary goal of an announcement, then how are they different than the Pharisees, or the Fundamentalists?

It is all part of the divisions in the Church body.

We need to get back to focusing on what it means to worship God. Honoring Him as God, alone. The depraved mind comes from those who do NOT do this, per Romans 1. Then, for them? Anything goes, sin wise. 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8tth, 9th, or 10th. Even those who KNOW the right thing to do, and do NOT do it, it is sin to them.

So, how far do we take this?

How can you say that no honest believing Christian would ever lie, steal, or any other sin in the name of their job, and then say that they would violate the 4th commandment in the name of their job? Why is lying, stealing or using God's name in vain a sin? The SDA church does not idolize the 4th commandment, and we assert that if any of the commandments are violated than they all are. As for the 4th commandment being "special", well history and society has done that. It is just a fact that out of all 10 commandments, it stands alone as the one most forgotten, discarded, reasoned away, you name it. We simply recognize that fact. Idolatry involves elevating something above God, and the SDA church most certainly does not do that. Their is absolutely nothing legalistic about the doctrines of the SDA church. Legalism is the belief that obedience to God earns them salvation. The SDA church does not teach that. It teaches what the Bible says:

John 14:15 (King James Version)

(15) "If ye love me, keep my commandments."


Why do people consider that legalistic? Christ said that. How much clearer could He have made it? We are not to keep His commandments to be saved, but because we are saved. The Sabbath is all about worshipping Christ as creator. Why do Christians have such an issue with that? Why do they want to throw that out or say that it isn't as important as Christ implied it to be, when He carved, a specific day, in stone with His own finger?
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Old 05-01-2010, 11:15 PM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,375,005 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HalfNelson View Post
Why do Christians have such an issue with that? Why do they want to throw that out or say that it isn't as important as Christ implied it to be, when He carved, a specific day, in stone with His own finger?
This point is laid to rest BY Christ Himself:

Mat 12:5
"Or have you not read in the Law, that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple break the Sabbath and are innocent? But I say to you that something greater than the temple is here.

"But if you had known what this means, 'I DESIRE COMPASSION, AND NOT A SACRIFICE,' you would not have condemned the innocent.

"For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath."

And in another book, along the same lines, He stated:

Mar 2:27
Jesus said to them, "The Sabbath was MADE FOR man, and NOT man for the Sabbath.

So, is the NT wrong here, or what? Like I said, if you want to be legalistic about it, are you going to judge those who were in Jesus' company as well? Jesus said He was Lord of the Sabbath. Then it goes to reason, since He Himself clarified it to the Pharisees what it meant, then let us not be legalistic about His Sabbath.

The things we do, we do because we love. If I hold a job that requires my work on Sat, and I do it because I love my family and provide for them, knowing that my life is IN Christ,,,then what is so different about it than if a sheep fell into a well, using Jesus' example?

It is how it is taken, and received. And, since God is our Judge, then we shall let Him BE the Judge concerning His Laws. Right?
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Old 05-02-2010, 12:29 AM
 
701 posts, read 658,705 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
This point is laid to rest BY Christ Himself:

Mat 12:5
"Or have you not read in the Law, that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple break the Sabbath and are innocent? But I say to you that something greater than the temple is here.

"But if you had known what this means, 'I DESIRE COMPASSION, AND NOT A SACRIFICE,' you would not have condemned the innocent.

"For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath."

And in another book, along the same lines, He stated:

Mar 2:27
Jesus said to them, "The Sabbath was MADE FOR man, and NOT man for the Sabbath.

So, is the NT wrong here, or what? Like I said, if you want to be legalistic about it, are you going to judge those who were in Jesus' company as well? Jesus said He was Lord of the Sabbath. Then it goes to reason, since He Himself clarified it to the Pharisees what it meant, then let us not be legalistic about His Sabbath.

The things we do, we do because we love. If I hold a job that requires my work on Sat, and I do it because I love my family and provide for them, knowing that my life is IN Christ,,,then what is so different about it than if a sheep fell into a well, using Jesus' example?

It is how it is taken, and received. And, since God is our Judge, then we shall let Him BE the Judge concerning His Laws. Right?

What people forget is that during the time of Christ the pharisees had created over 300 man made laws pertaining to the Sabbath that were completely nonsensical. Rules like, you can only take so many steps from your front door, or if you spit on the ground during the Sabbath then you are irrigating your field. These are the things which Christ spoke against regarding the Sabbath that had made it a "burden" for people. Christ, when He said that the Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath, was telling them that He created the Sabbath to be a blessing for man. The only thing Christ commanded regarding the Sabbath was to A) Keep it Holy, and B) Not work. Doing those things isn't being legalistic it is being obedient. Legalistic is what the Pharisees were, and what those 300+ laws they came up with were all about, these laws were not about loving God. Ceasing from work and keeping His day Holy are all about loving God. You are absolutely right that God is our judge, and if I some how gave you the impression that I am judging you I do apologize. The reasons why you do what you do are ultimately between you and God. I just hope that you understand that following God is more important than following man. I hope you understand that God can still provide for you and your family if you stand up for Him in spite of what the dictates of man are. I hope you understand that it is the same Law that says don't lie/steal/or take God's name in vain, also says that the 7th Day of every week is Holy, and asks us to refrain from work and keep it Holy. I am not judging I am simply stating facts.
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