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Old 04-30-2010, 06:17 AM
 
Location: Maryland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
I'm not Catholic, but I always thought the belief of Purgatory came from 1 Peter 3:18-19:

"For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;"

There is also 1 Cor 3:15, 1 Pet 1:7.

And of course 2 Macc 12:46. But most non catholics do not consider Maccabes to be canonical.
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Old 04-30-2010, 06:46 AM
 
Location: Northern Va. from N.J.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oakback View Post
There is also 1 Cor 3:15, 1 Pet 1:7.

And of course 2 Macc 12:46. But most non catholics do not consider Maccabes to be canonical.
They removed that book from the bible because it did not agree with their man made doctrines.
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Old 04-30-2010, 07:00 AM
 
Location: Northern Va. from N.J.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airō View Post
All I've seen here are contrived opinions and not one bit of biblical support for Purgatory. For something so central to Catholic religion, it's hard to believe no one cares that there's nothing Scriptural about it. Are you really that influenced to not to consider that you are so terribly wrong? And to put your trust in something so unbiblical that will have eternal consequences?
How very untrue what you say, Moderator cut: deleted as "not nice" (rude)

Last edited by june 7th; 04-30-2010 at 04:41 PM..
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Old 04-30-2010, 07:42 AM
 
Location: Maryland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ted08721 View Post
They removed that book from the bible because it did not agree with their man made doctrines.
I'm usaully loath to quote scripture. Afterall, here is a perfect example of how various minds can draw different conclusions.

We Catholics prefer to look at the totality of scripture and the historical developement of opinions, and with the support of The Holy Spirit develope doctrine.

We don't stand on the verses I quoted as the sole justification of the doctrine. They merely support it, in light 2000 years of theological development.
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Old 04-30-2010, 10:59 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
I'm not Catholic, but I always thought the belief of Purgatory came from 1 Peter 3:18-19:

"For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;"
1 Peter 3:19 has nothing to do with some un-Biblical purgatory. It is a statement that as a result of His strategic victory over Satan on the Cross, Jesus Christ after His resurrection made a trip to Tartarus where the particular group of fallen angels who were involved in the Genesis 6 incident which resulted in the Nephilim and therefore the flood, were, and now, are imprisoned. He didn't preach to them but rather He proclaimed-EKERUXEN to them that their Leader Satan had lost and that they had failed in their attempt to destroy true humanity by turning it into a hybrid race of half-angelic, half-human beings called the Nephilim. He informed the imprisoned angels that He had gone to the Cross on schedule and accomplished His mission of paying the penalty for sin so that man could make a decision for Christ in order to enter into an eternal relationship with God. He told them that their fate was sealed and that they would eventually be transferred to their eternal punishment in the lake of fire.

2 Peter 2:4 For if God spared not the angels who sinned, but cast them down to Tartarus, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment...

1 Peter 3:19 in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison (TARTARUS), 20) who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah...

Jude 6 And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day.

The judgment of the great day...

Matthew 25:41 ...into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oakback View Post
There is also 1 Cor 3:15, 1 Pet 1:7.

And of course 2 Macc 12:46. But most non catholics do not consider Maccabes to be canonical.
1 Cor. 3:12-15 along with 2 Cor. 5:10 and Romans 14:10-12 is the judgment seat of Christ which takes place immediately following the rapture of the church and has to do with the evaluation of the believers works during his life on earth. It has nothing to do with any so called purgatory. Rather, the believer is rewarded for his works which are found by Jesus Christ to be 'gold, silver, and precious stones,' and his works which are found by Christ to be 'wood, hay, and stubble' are burned up.

1 Peter 1:6-7 is simply talking about the trials, testings, and sufferings of the believer in Christ during his time on earth for the purpose of producing spiritual growth.

There is no such thing as purgatory for the believer. The believer has been made POSITIONALY perfect as of the moment of faith in Christ.

Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.

Whether the believer ever grows up spiritually (experiential sanctification) or not, he is still positionaly sanctified by virtue of being in union with Christ as a result of the baptism of the Holy Spirit (1 Cor. 12:13; Gal. 3:26-28; Eph. 4:5) thus rendering as asinine, the concept of any purgatory.

And as for the unbeliever who has died without Christ, his place is in the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels as per Matthew 25:41,46 and Revelation 20:11-15.

Last edited by Mike555; 04-30-2010 at 11:21 AM..
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Old 04-30-2010, 10:59 AM
 
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I also feel that pretty much every non Catholic on this thread misunderstands Purgatory. We by no mean think it is a second chance.
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Old 04-30-2010, 02:19 PM
 
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Excellent and biblically-based post, brother Mike. The context of the passages you expounded have nothing to do with a purgatory, yet so many refuse to study this matter for themselves and continue to be spoon fed the lies. Please, please, please read and study these passages for yourselves and stop relying on Rome.
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Old 04-30-2010, 05:02 PM
 
20,353 posts, read 15,737,455 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
In light of all your posts on various threads, I'm surprised you believe in Jesus' victory over Satan since you believe that Satan wins a huge majority of souls, and Jesus only wins a few. That doesn't sound very victorious.
From the the datelessness of eternity past, it was the intention of the Trinity that the second member of the Godhead, Jesus Christ, would come into the world as a member of the human race and make His way to the Cross to pay the penalty for sin so that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. Satan did all that he could to prevent Christ from accomplishing His mission. He failed. He never had a chance. The fact that the majority of the human race will reject Christ and be eternally lost changes nothing. God gave man free will for the very purpose of giving man a choice. Man's free will is the most basic issue in the angelic conflict-the invisible spiritual warfare. The fact that Any member of the human race chooses for God demonstrates to all of creation that Satan and the angels that rebelled against God are without excuse, and that God is justified in sentencing the fallen angels, as well as unbelieving humanity to the eternal fire.

God's plan was to offer salvation to the world as a result of what Christ accomplished on the Cross.. Those who receive the offer have eternal salvation. Those who refuse the offer of salvation through faith in Christ spend eternity separated from God in the lake of fire.

No purgatory, no second chances after death. The day of salvation is NOW. After death, it is too late to change your mind. For humanity, the field of battle in the angelic conflict is in the soul while alive on this earth. After death, the issue for any individual person is settled and he has chosen his side. Heaven or hell. Eternity with God or eternal separation from God. Eternal life or eternal destruction not in cessation of existence, but in eternal conscious torment and shame in hopeless ruin and uselessness in the eternal fire that has been prepared for the devil and his angels.

Last edited by Mike555; 04-30-2010 at 05:38 PM..
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Old 04-30-2010, 05:21 PM
 
20,353 posts, read 15,737,455 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airō View Post
Excellent and biblically-based post, brother Mike. The context of the passages you expounded have nothing to do with a purgatory, yet so many refuse to study this matter for themselves and continue to be spoon fed the lies. Please, please, please read and study these passages for yourselves and stop relying on Rome.
Thanks. Unfortunately, many who do study ONLY for themselves without a knowledgable pastor/teacher to provide sound doctrinal teaching go off into all sorts of unscriptural beliefs.

As indicated in a recent Barna survey, there are many who prefer to pick and choose what they want from the Bible in accordance to what makes them feel good rather than to believe what the Scriptures say. In so doing, they custom design their own belief system in opposition to the revealed word of God.

But yes, many who were raised Catholic will continue to believe Roman Catholicism simply because it's what they grew up with. They have no idea that much of what it teaches is straight from the ancient Babylonian religion.
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Old 04-30-2010, 06:38 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
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I don't believe in Purgatory, but I do believe it had its source in true doctrine. The early Christians definitely did believe in a place where the dead went to await the resurrection, and they definitely did believe that it was a place of both learning and punishment. I can give you at least a half dozen examples of where this was taught by the early Church fathers.
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