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Old 05-02-2010, 12:23 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
It seems the question at the heart of Christianity is, "What does it take to go to heaven?"
A blood-bought born again experience built upon righteousness and holiness.

1 John 1:7 - ...the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Colossians 3:9-10 - ...seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

Ephesians 4:24 - And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
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Old 05-02-2010, 12:44 PM
 
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Next time someone is preaching about going to heaven to you, you might want to ask: Do you know if yourself is going to heaven? Do you know anyone who is going to heaven? If no one is, why preach me about going to heaven?
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Old 05-02-2010, 04:47 PM
 
Location: Out of Florida........
4,309 posts, read 5,460,748 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
I didn't attempt such an argument. The topic for the discussion in the OP is:

I would like for people to post how they see all these verses working together for the one true message of the gospel. Can you present a clear message without having to ignore any of the other verses?
It's rather simple: Say YES!! That's it, that's all, the rest will make sense soon! And YES...you can come just as you are!

Verses? THE ENTIRE BIBLE! ALL OF IT!
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Old 05-02-2010, 04:49 PM
 
Location: Out of Florida........
4,309 posts, read 5,460,748 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic235 View Post
Next time someone is preaching about going to heaven to you, you might want to ask: Do you know if yourself is going to heaven? Do you know anyone who is going to heaven? If no one is, why preach me about going to heaven?

Hi Vic235, Do you know if you're going to heaven? Do you know anyone who is going to heaven?
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Old 05-10-2010, 07:35 PM
 
1,867 posts, read 1,167,676 times
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Default This Is Very Spiritually And Godly To Talk About

Normally people want to figure God out in the wisdom of man and tell people what a Christian is.

Wisdom of man a filthy rag only--------Isaiah 64:6.

I'm offending people with college degrees and what they think they got of common sense--------Isaiah 64:6

I'm offending people that figure they been raised right and been raising their children right so they so right--------Isaiah 64:6

I'm offending people that figure their good is greater then their bad so their so right---Isaiah 64:6

I'm offending people that figure the way to be so right is to seek the counsel or wisdom of man or through what's suppose to be the right big
shot leader to be so right----Isaiah 64:6

I'm offending people that figure doing this on their own with all the bible is not their gift on the earth to be so right-------Isaiah 64:6

People want to limit the holiness of God to making peace and raising nice
children.

People want to limit the holiness of God to grace we don't deserve only.

People want to limit the holiness of God to the beer bottle and drugs to give up.

People want to limit the holiness of God to having converts and meetings all the time.

People want to limit the holiness of God to materialism and tithing all the
time.

People want to limit the holiness of God to never offending people and
saying prayers and performing praise with songs only.

People want to limit the holiness of God to making friends with everybody
for God so they can go through a quick speech on grace to be saved.

People want to limit the holiness of God to giving up cigarettes and forgiving people.

People want to limit the holiness of God to going through tribulation with
ungodly people while they also go through tribulation with financial
challenges in their life.

People want to limit the holiness of God to what they want to believe
God for only.

People want to limit the holiness of God to gifts they see manifested
their way only.

People want to limit the holiness of God to dreams and visions they have
only.

People want to limit the holiness of God to what they want to accomplish
with unity only.

People want to limit the holiness of God to what they figure they thought
they heard from God only and not the book talking.

People want to limit the holiness of God to 90% of the bible only.

People want to limit the holiness of God to him speaking in 90% of the
book while they incorporate whatever opposing philosophies they want
only.

People want to limit the holiness of God to a personality like man or that
person we think is so right.

Holiness of God come with bible revelation all the time.

Way more to it then never missing around on a spouse or never
molesting an innocent child.

Way more to it then making everybody like you so you can have a trophy
and plague in your office.

Way more to it then never cussing and swearing.

Way more to it then being called a sweetheart and great soul winner.

Way more to it then showing off all your family in a meeting.

Way more to then casting out demons and doing for the poor and despised.












Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
It seems the question at the heart of Christianity is, “What does it take to go to heaven?” I think a better question is, "What does it take to have a deep relationship with God?", but if one believes in a literal lake of fire, then nothing else should matter other than trying to prevent anyone from ending up there.

On another thread, I posted a list of verses (below) that I stumbled across on a skeptic's website. Other than some of the verses they listed that talk about rewards, these phrases are usually used interchangeably with going to heaven. If you don’t like the fact that it came from a skeptic’s website, first realize that they are all still from the scripture whether you like the way they are presented or not, and second, shouldn’t we be prepared to give an answer for the hope that is within us? Shouldn’t we get some insight into how skeptics see Christianity so we can know how to lead them to Christ?

I would like for people to post how they see all these verses working together for the one true message of the gospel. Can you present a clear message without having to ignore any of the other verses? They talk about the following (keep scrolling for the list of verses):

ask-receive/seek-find/knock-shall be opened
born again
born of God
chosen
come forth unto the resurrection of life
enter into life
enter into the kingdom of God
enter into the kingdom of heaven
escape the damnation of hell
have eternal life
have everlasting life
inherit eternal life
inherit the kingdom
justified
live
live with him
not cast out
not die
not lose his reward
predestined/called/justified/glorified
raise him up at the last day
redeemed from the earth
rewarded
sanctified
save his soul
saved
spirit may be saved

What must you do to be saved?

1.Say the right things.
For by thy words thou shalt be justified. -- Matthew 12:37

2.Do the right things.
And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life. -- John 5:29

For you render to each one according to his works. -- Psalm 62:12

I the Lord ... give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings. -- Jeremiah 17:10

For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works. -- Matthew 16.27

For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. -- 2 Corinthians 5:10

Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works. -- 2 Corinthians 11:15

What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? -- James 2:14

The Father, who without partiality judges according to each one's work. -- 1 Peter 1:17

I will give unto every one of you according to your works. -- Revelation 2:23

And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. -- Revelation 20:12-13

3.Believe the right things.
A man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. -- Romans 3:28

Therefore, being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. -- Romans 5:1

A man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ. -- Galatians 2:16

For by grace are ye saved through faith. -- Ephesians 2:8

4.Do and believe the right things.
Faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. -- James 2:17

5.Feed the hungry, give drink to the thirsty, take in strangers, clothe the naked, visit the sick and imprisoned.
Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. -- Matthew 25:34-36

6.Do what is lawful and right.
When the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness ... and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul. -- Ezekiel 18:27

7.Do the will of Jesus' father.
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Matthew 7:21

8.Be a doer of the law.
Who will render to each one according to his deeds. ... For not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified. -- Romans 2:6, 13

9.See Jesus and believe in him.
Every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. -- John 6:40

10. Believe in Jesus.
Whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. -- John 3:16

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life. -- John 3:36

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. -- John 6:47

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved. -- Acts 16:31

11. Be born again.
Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. -- John 3:3

12. Hear the words of Jesus and believe in whoever sent him.
He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life. -- John 5:24

13. Be born of water and the spirit.
Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. -- John 3:5

14. Be dead with Jesus.
It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: -- 2 Timothy 2:11

15. Be washed by the Holy Ghost.
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost. -- Titus 3:5

16. Be converted and become like a little child.
Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. -- Matthew 18:3

17. Hate your own life.
The man who loves his life will lose it, while the man who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life. John 12:25

18. Lose your life for Christ's sake.
For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. -- Matthew 16:25, Mark 8:35, Luke 9:24, Luke 17:33

19. Give a cup of water to a Christian.
For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward. -- Matthew 10:42, Mark 9:41

20. Believe and be baptized.
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved. -- Mark 16:16

21. Belong to a household that has at least one believer.
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. -- Acts 16:31

For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy. -- 1 Corinthians 7:14

22. Call upon the name of the Lord.
Whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. -- Acts 2:21, Romans 10:13

23. Confess with your mouth "Jesus is Lord" and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead.
If thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. -- Romans 10:9

24. Follow the commandments (at least some of them).
If you want to enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. -- Matthew 19:17-19

Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life. -- Revelation 22:14

25. Keep some of the commandments, give all your money to the poor, and follow Jesus.
And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? ... Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother. And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up. ...thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.-- Luke 18:18-22

26. Keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. -- Revelation 14:12

27. Love the truth.
And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. -- 2 Thessalonians 2:10

28. Endure to the end.
He that endureth to the end shall be saved. -- Matthew 10:22, 24:13, Mark 13:13

29. Wait until you die and then get baptized (after you're dead).
Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead? -- 1 Corinthians 15:29

30. Don't judge other people.
Judge not, and ye shall not be judged. -- Matthew 7:1, Luke 6:37

31. Have lots of babies (and be faithful, charitable, holy, and sober).
And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety. -- 1 Timothy 2:14-15

32. Get saved by your spouse.
For what knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save thy husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save thy wife? -- 1 Corinthians 7:16

33. Turn yourself over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh so your spirit may be saved. (For fornicators only.)
It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you ... deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. -- 1 Corinthians 5:1-5

34. Abandon your home and family for Jesus' name's sake.
And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life. -- Matthew 19:29, Mark 10:29-30, Luke 18:29-30

35. Don't be a serpent or a viper, and make sure none of your ancestors were prophet killers.
Ye are the children of them which killed the prophets ... Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? -- Matthew 23:31-33

36. Try to enter through the strait gate.
Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them, Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. -- Luke 13:23-24

37. Become an Israeli citizen.
And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob. -- Romans 11:26

38. Don't defile yourself with women. (Be a virgin male.)
...the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. -- Revelation 14:4

39. Don't be ashamed of Jesus.
Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels. -- Mark 8:38

40. Don't let anyone see you do anything good.
Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven. -- Matthew 6:1

41. Be given by the Father and come to the Son.
All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. -- John 6:37

42. Be chosen (predestinated) by God.
For many are called, but few are chosen. -- Matthew 22:14

No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day. John 6:44

For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate ... Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. -- Romans 8:29-30

For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth. -- Romans 9:11

He hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love. Having predestinated us ... according to the good pleasure of his will. -- Ephesians 1:4-5

43. Be poor, not rich.
Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. -- Matthew 19:23-24

But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation. -- Luke 6:24

Ye rich men, weep and howl for your miseries that shall come upon you. -- James 5:1

44. Be last.
But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first. -- Matthew 19:30, Mark 10:31

45. Be more righteous than the scribes and Pharisees.
Except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. -- Matthew 5:20

46. Eat the bread that comes down from heaven.
This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. -- John 6:50

47. Eat Jesus' body and blood.
Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. -- John 6:53-54

48. Just ask.
Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. -- Matthew 7:7-8

49. Love God and your neighbor.
He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou -- Luke 10:26

50. All you need is love.
Love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God. -- 1 John 4:7

51. Believe in the foolishness of preaching.
For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. -- 1 Corinthians 1:21

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/saved.html
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Old 05-10-2010, 07:38 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,298 posts, read 20,959,818 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
Ephesians 2 says that we're already there because of God's love and mercy.
Oh man, I hope you're not saying this is as good as it's gonna get.
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Old 05-10-2010, 08:36 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahigherway View Post
Perhaps the real question is, "who is responsible for you getting into heaven or not, you or God?"
Christ.
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Old 05-10-2010, 08:40 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,296,210 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SisterKat View Post
Yes....confessing with the lips just doesn't cut it for me. If we would just listen and focus on what Jesus told us to......for me it is that simple. When we grow with God in his Love, we become closer to and more at-one with him.....our nature will not be to sin. We may slip up but the closer we get the less we sin. I find this to be true within my very own personal experience with God.

There are so many that confess with their lips that God does not know. To me, this is a dangerous teaching and not the way to the narrow gate.
That's why Paul says "believe".
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Old 05-10-2010, 08:47 PM
 
Location: Nashville, TN
2,031 posts, read 2,692,266 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
Oh man, I hope you're not saying this is as good as it's gonna get.
We have very different beliefs, but I agree with you 100% on this. Yikes the thought that this life on earth is heaven is really not a good one.
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