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Old 04-28-2010, 07:12 PM
 
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It seems the question at the heart of Christianity is, “What does it take to go to heaven?” I think a better question is, "What does it take to have a deep relationship with God?", but if one believes in a literal lake of fire, then nothing else should matter other than trying to prevent anyone from ending up there.

On another thread, I posted a list of verses (below) that I stumbled across on a skeptic's website. Other than some of the verses they listed that talk about rewards, these phrases are usually used interchangeably with going to heaven. If you don’t like the fact that it came from a skeptic’s website, first realize that they are all still from the scripture whether you like the way they are presented or not, and second, shouldn’t we be prepared to give an answer for the hope that is within us? Shouldn’t we get some insight into how skeptics see Christianity so we can know how to lead them to Christ?

I would like for people to post how they see all these verses working together for the one true message of the gospel. Can you present a clear message without having to ignore any of the other verses? They talk about the following (keep scrolling for the list of verses):

ask-receive/seek-find/knock-shall be opened
born again
born of God
chosen
come forth unto the resurrection of life
enter into life
enter into the kingdom of God
enter into the kingdom of heaven
escape the damnation of hell
have eternal life
have everlasting life
inherit eternal life
inherit the kingdom
justified
live
live with him
not cast out
not die
not lose his reward
predestined/called/justified/glorified
raise him up at the last day
redeemed from the earth
rewarded
sanctified
save his soul
saved
spirit may be saved

What must you do to be saved?

1.Say the right things.
For by thy words thou shalt be justified. -- Matthew 12:37

2.Do the right things.
And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life. -- John 5:29

For you render to each one according to his works. -- Psalm 62:12

I the Lord ... give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings. -- Jeremiah 17:10

For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works. -- Matthew 16.27

For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. -- 2 Corinthians 5:10

Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works. -- 2 Corinthians 11:15

What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? -- James 2:14

The Father, who without partiality judges according to each one's work. -- 1 Peter 1:17

I will give unto every one of you according to your works. -- Revelation 2:23

And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. -- Revelation 20:12-13

3.Believe the right things.
A man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. -- Romans 3:28

Therefore, being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. -- Romans 5:1

A man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ. -- Galatians 2:16

For by grace are ye saved through faith. -- Ephesians 2:8

4.Do and believe the right things.
Faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. -- James 2:17

5.Feed the hungry, give drink to the thirsty, take in strangers, clothe the naked, visit the sick and imprisoned.
Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. -- Matthew 25:34-36

6.Do what is lawful and right.
When the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness ... and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul. -- Ezekiel 18:27

7.Do the will of Jesus' father.
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Matthew 7:21

8.Be a doer of the law.
Who will render to each one according to his deeds. ... For not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified. -- Romans 2:6, 13

9.See Jesus and believe in him.
Every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. -- John 6:40

10. Believe in Jesus.
Whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. -- John 3:16

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life. -- John 3:36

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. -- John 6:47

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved. -- Acts 16:31

11. Be born again.
Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. -- John 3:3

12. Hear the words of Jesus and believe in whoever sent him.
He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life. -- John 5:24

13. Be born of water and the spirit.
Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. -- John 3:5

14. Be dead with Jesus.
It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: -- 2 Timothy 2:11

15. Be washed by the Holy Ghost.
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost. -- Titus 3:5

16. Be converted and become like a little child.
Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. -- Matthew 18:3

17. Hate your own life.
The man who loves his life will lose it, while the man who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life. John 12:25

18. Lose your life for Christ's sake.
For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. -- Matthew 16:25, Mark 8:35, Luke 9:24, Luke 17:33

19. Give a cup of water to a Christian.
For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward. -- Matthew 10:42, Mark 9:41

20. Believe and be baptized.
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved. -- Mark 16:16

21. Belong to a household that has at least one believer.
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. -- Acts 16:31

For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy. -- 1 Corinthians 7:14

22. Call upon the name of the Lord.
Whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. -- Acts 2:21, Romans 10:13

23. Confess with your mouth "Jesus is Lord" and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead.
If thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. -- Romans 10:9

24. Follow the commandments (at least some of them).
If you want to enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. -- Matthew 19:17-19

Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life. -- Revelation 22:14

25. Keep some of the commandments, give all your money to the poor, and follow Jesus.
And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? ... Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother. And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up. ...thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.-- Luke 18:18-22

26. Keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. -- Revelation 14:12

27. Love the truth.
And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. -- 2 Thessalonians 2:10

28. Endure to the end.
He that endureth to the end shall be saved. -- Matthew 10:22, 24:13, Mark 13:13

29. Wait until you die and then get baptized (after you're dead).
Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead? -- 1 Corinthians 15:29

30. Don't judge other people.
Judge not, and ye shall not be judged. -- Matthew 7:1, Luke 6:37

31. Have lots of babies (and be faithful, charitable, holy, and sober).
And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety. -- 1 Timothy 2:14-15

32. Get saved by your spouse.
For what knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save thy husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save thy wife? -- 1 Corinthians 7:16

33. Turn yourself over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh so your spirit may be saved. (For fornicators only.)
It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you ... deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. -- 1 Corinthians 5:1-5

34. Abandon your home and family for Jesus' name's sake.
And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life. -- Matthew 19:29, Mark 10:29-30, Luke 18:29-30

35. Don't be a serpent or a viper, and make sure none of your ancestors were prophet killers.
Ye are the children of them which killed the prophets ... Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? -- Matthew 23:31-33

36. Try to enter through the strait gate.
Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them, Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. -- Luke 13:23-24

37. Become an Israeli citizen.
And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob. -- Romans 11:26

38. Don't defile yourself with women. (Be a virgin male.)
...the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. -- Revelation 14:4

39. Don't be ashamed of Jesus.
Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels. -- Mark 8:38

40. Don't let anyone see you do anything good.
Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven. -- Matthew 6:1

41. Be given by the Father and come to the Son.
All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. -- John 6:37

42. Be chosen (predestinated) by God.
For many are called, but few are chosen. -- Matthew 22:14

No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day. John 6:44

For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate ... Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. -- Romans 8:29-30

For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth. -- Romans 9:11

He hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love. Having predestinated us ... according to the good pleasure of his will. -- Ephesians 1:4-5

43. Be poor, not rich.
Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. -- Matthew 19:23-24

But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation. -- Luke 6:24

Ye rich men, weep and howl for your miseries that shall come upon you. -- James 5:1

44. Be last.
But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first. -- Matthew 19:30, Mark 10:31

45. Be more righteous than the scribes and Pharisees.
Except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. -- Matthew 5:20

46. Eat the bread that comes down from heaven.
This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. -- John 6:50

47. Eat Jesus' body and blood.
Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. -- John 6:53-54

48. Just ask.
Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. -- Matthew 7:7-8

49. Love God and your neighbor.
He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou -- Luke 10:26

50. All you need is love.
Love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God. -- 1 John 4:7

51. Believe in the foolishness of preaching.
For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. -- 1 Corinthians 1:21

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/saved.html
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Old 04-28-2010, 07:35 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
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have everlasting life = inherit eternal life....hmmm

enter into the kingdom of God = enter into the kingdom of heaven .........hmmmmm

have everlasting life = inherit eternal life = enter into the kingdom of God = enter into the kingdom of heaven ............hmmmmmmm

Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels..............."Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life." (Matthew 25:41 & 46).


You can no more argue biblically against the eternity of hell than the eternity of heaven.
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Old 04-28-2010, 07:48 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
have everlasting life = inherit eternal life....hmmm

enter into the kingdom of God = enter into the kingdom of heaven .........hmmmmm

have everlasting life = inherit eternal life = enter into the kingdom of God = enter into the kingdom of heaven ............hmmmmmmm

Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels..............."Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life." (Matthew 25:41 & 46).


You can no more argue biblically against the eternity of hell than the eternity of heaven.
I didn't attempt such an argument. The topic for the discussion in the OP is:

I would like for people to post how they see all these verses working together for the one true message of the gospel. Can you present a clear message without having to ignore any of the other verses?
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Old 04-29-2010, 08:23 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
I didn't attempt such an argument. The topic for the discussion in the OP is:

I would like for people to post how they see all these verses working together for the one true message of the gospel. Can you present a clear message without having to ignore any of the other verses?
I did. (taking all the other verses into consideration) You can no more argue biblically against the eternity of hell than the eternity of heaven.

Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels..............."Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life." (Matthew 25:41 & 46).
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Old 04-29-2010, 09:59 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
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That's a lot of things to be doing for salvation that is not of works!
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Old 04-29-2010, 11:42 PM
 
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Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
You can no more argue biblically against the eternity of hell than the eternity of heaven.
What part of "that's not the topic of the OP," do you not understand?

I don't argue against the eternity of hell anyway, because it's a moot point. Hell is all about God being a consuming fire and refining people through the process, so it doesn't matter to me how long it lasts because it works everything for His true, holy, and divine purpose for all of creation. If it were a torture chamber, then it would definitely matter how long it lasted.

Now, please feel free to post on the thread again if you want to share how you see all those verses working together for the ONE TRUE message of the good news of Christ.
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Old 04-30-2010, 04:11 AM
 
Location: Italy
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Perhaps the real question is, "who is responsible for you getting into heaven or not, you or God?"
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Old 04-30-2010, 06:48 AM
 
Location: Indianapolis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
It seems the question at the heart of Christianity is, “What does it take to go to heaven?” I think a better question is, "What does it take to have a deep relationship with God?", but if one believes in a literal lake of fire, then nothing else should matter other than trying to prevent anyone from ending up there.

On another thread, I posted a list of verses (below) that I stumbled across on a skeptic's website. Other than some of the verses they listed that talk about rewards, these phrases are usually used interchangeably with going to heaven. If you don’t like the fact that it came from a skeptic’s website, first realize that they are all still from the scripture whether you like the way they are presented or not, and second, shouldn’t we be prepared to give an answer for the hope that is within us? Shouldn’t we get some insight into how skeptics see Christianity so we can know how to lead them to Christ?

I would like for people to post how they see all these verses working together for the one true message of the gospel. Can you present a clear message without having to ignore any of the other verses? They talk about the following (keep scrolling for the list of verses):

ask-receive/seek-find/knock-shall be opened
born again
born of God
chosen
come forth unto the resurrection of life
enter into life
enter into the kingdom of God
enter into the kingdom of heaven
escape the damnation of hell
have eternal life
have everlasting life
inherit eternal life
inherit the kingdom
justified
live
live with him
not cast out
not die
not lose his reward
predestined/called/justified/glorified
raise him up at the last day
redeemed from the earth
rewarded
sanctified
save his soul
saved
spirit may be saved

What must you do to be saved?

1.Say the right things.
For by thy words thou shalt be justified. -- Matthew 12:37

Etc., etc., etc.
That's quite a list.

I think I'll just stick with what Jesus said. Love God with all your heart, mind and soul and Love your neighbor. I think that sums it all up in a nutshell. When you love, you cannot do harm to another and I believe that is all God asks of us.
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Old 04-30-2010, 07:32 AM
 
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Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post

You can no more argue biblically against the eternity of hell than the eternity of heaven.
The scriptures I use don't contain the word Hell, so what are you even talking about? Some religious assertion of a word is not something anyone has to believe.
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Old 04-30-2010, 12:38 PM
 
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I agree with Higherway. My first thought goes to Php 2:3 for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.

Beyond that, I'm not sure that I agree all of these things refer to a future heaven. Jesus told the Pharisees that the Kingdom was among them, that it was at hand, that it was joy and peace and righteousness. Sounds like something we may experience in the present, no? And life [eternal] age-during? I think that is synonymous with the Kingdom, therefore has to do with the here and now.

And the idea of being saved (from what? judgment, destruction, wrath? sin?), again, I'm not understanding why that necessarily refers to a future heaven rather than the here and now. The gospel of John says that we are all under condemnation already, right now. We reap what we sow, and it makes sense that if Christ is living in you through faith, what He sows in and through you will bring life in the here and now, saving us from the condemnation we already are under.

So, what does it take to get to heaven? Ephesians 2 says that we're already there because of God's love and mercy.:

4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions--it is by grace you have been saved.6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7 in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-- 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.10 For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
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