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Old 04-30-2010, 06:07 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,259 posts, read 20,859,174 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Can you answer my question?
Well, Christ visited the Spirit World during the period of time between His death and resurrection to teach His gospel to those who had died before Him. Apparently He felt it was necessary that they be allowed to make an informed choice. The same sitution exists today. Why should people who died after Christ be condemned for having been born in a place where Christianity had not been established?
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Old 04-30-2010, 06:10 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,259 posts, read 20,859,174 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
The Bible tells us that we are buy nature children of wrath. It tells us that there is none righteous and it tells us that God is holy. Would it be justice to say those that who did not hear of Christ are somehow excluded from the righteous judgment of God upon them for their sin? Would that be justice? If that is so, then why did Jesus need to die? Why would it be that they must hear the gospel and come to Christ?
Uh... you kind of lost me. Do you believe that a person must accept Jesus Christ as His Savior in order to be a recipient of His grace?
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Old 04-30-2010, 06:25 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,284,911 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
Well, Christ visited the Spirit World during the period of time between His death and resurrection to teach His gospel to those who had died before Him. Apparently He felt it was necessary that they be allowed to make an informed choice. The same sitution exists today. Why should people who died after Christ be condemned for having been born in a place where Christianity had not been established?
That doesn't answer the question, and Christ did not "preach" the gospel in Hades as an offer of salvation. Look at the text, it says "preached" as in "herald", to "announce" His victory over death. The word rendered "preached" is not the usual word euangelizo used to "preaching/evangelizing", but the emphatic word kerusso, which means to proclaim as a herald. Even so Christ heralded His victory over death, and the proclamation of this reached to the utmost bounds of creation...i.e. prison as in Hades/Gehenna.

Also, men are never spoken of in Scripture as "spirits". Man has a spirit, but he is not "a spirit", for a spirit hath not flesh and bones". In this life man has "flesh and blood", a "natural" (or physical) body. At death this spirit "returns to God who gave it" (Psa 31:5. Eccles 12:7. Luke 23:46. Acts 7:59). In the resurrection "God giveth it a body as it hath pleased Him" (1 Cor. 15:38). This is no longer a "natural" (or physical) body, but a "spiritual body" (1 Cor. 15:44). In 2 Pet. 2:4 we read of "the angels that sinned"; and in 1 Pet 3:19 and 20 of "spirits" which sometime were disobedient ... in the days of Noah". In 2 Pet. 2:4 we are told that the fallen angels are reserved unto judgment, and delivered into chains (i.e. bondage or "prison"). Cross ref. Jude 6 as well.
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Old 04-30-2010, 06:28 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,284,911 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
Uh... you kind of lost me. Do you believe that a person must accept Jesus Christ as His Savior in order to be a recipient of His grace?
What do the scriptrues say? Let's do both Testaments shall we?

Psa 103:17 But the mercy of the LORD [is] from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him, and his righteousness unto children's children;

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

So tell me, if a person does not confess that Christ is Lord, are they saved, according to Romans 10?

Also, according to Psalm 103, if you don't revere, fear and love God, will you receive His mercy?
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Old 04-30-2010, 07:05 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,259 posts, read 20,859,174 times
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Sciotamicks, do you realize that you have answered every single one of my questions with another question or a passage of scripture? You have not once even attempted a simple straightforward answer. I can't converse like that. That's not dialogue. It's a waste of time.
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Old 04-30-2010, 07:11 PM
Status: "Build the damn wall!" (set 4 days ago)
 
Location: The Haunted Mansion
15,132 posts, read 8,222,812 times
Reputation: 1543
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
Sciotamicks, do you realize that you have answered every single one of my questions with another question or a passage of scripture? You have not once even attempted a simple straightforward answer. I can't converse like that. That's not dialogue. It's a waste of time.
What's wrong with Scriptural answers to our questions? Isn't that where we should look?
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Old 04-30-2010, 07:11 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,383,615 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
What do the scriptrues say? Let's do both Testaments shall we?

Psa 103:17 But the mercy of the LORD [is] from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him, and his righteousness unto children's children;

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

So tell me, if a person does not confess that Christ is Lord, are they saved, according to Romans 10?

Also, according to Psalm 103, if you don't revere, fear and love God, will you receive His mercy?
Doesn't the bible also say that in order to confess that Christ is Lord one must have the holy spirit? So that if they have the holy spirit aren't they chosen by God? and if they have the holy spirit but have not yet confessed that Christ is Lord aren't they still chosen?
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Old 04-30-2010, 07:13 PM
Status: "Build the damn wall!" (set 4 days ago)
 
Location: The Haunted Mansion
15,132 posts, read 8,222,812 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Doesn't the bible also say that in order to confess that Christ is Lord one must have the holy spirit? So that if they have the holy spirit aren't they chosen by God? and if they have the holy spirit but have not yet confessed that Christ is Lord aren't they still chosen?
Do you have a Scriptural reference for that?
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Old 04-30-2010, 07:38 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,720,522 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Scriptures please?

Let me ask you something about justice.....do you think it is just for God to ask His servants and saints to sacrfice their lives for Him in this life, when He is going to let those come into the faith that HAVE NOT lived this way and outright rejected Him in this life, after they die?

Doesn't sound very just to me.
Please correct me if I'm wrong because I might be misunderstanding what you mean by "sacrifice their lives for Him in this life." This sounds to me like you begrudge the life you are living and have a little envy of those you don't have to "live this way." What exactly did you mean by that? I don't feel I sacrifice for God by living as sinless as possible. I consider it a blessing to know God and I don't want to do anything to hurt or disappoint Him. When I get to heaven and witness people who didn't "live this way" worshipping God, I won't be mad and think that's unjust, I'll be rejoicing!
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Old 04-30-2010, 08:05 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,284,911 times
Reputation: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
Sciotamicks, do you realize that you have answered every single one of my questions with another question or a passage of scripture? You have not once even attempted a simple straightforward answer. I can't converse like that. That's not dialogue. It's a waste of time.
You never answered me first....I asked the first question....I am waiting...The scripture answered you.
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