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Old 05-01-2010, 04:15 AM
 
Location: East Coast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
What do the scriptrues say? Let's do both Testaments shall we?

Psa 103:17 But the mercy of the LORD [is] from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him, and his righteousness unto children's children;

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

So tell me, if a person does not confess that Christ is Lord, are they saved, according to Romans 10?

Also, according to Psalm 103, if you don't revere, fear and love God, will you receive His mercy?
Sciota

A simple question , what was being demonstrated and pored unconditionally at the Cross towards all of us who come under the category of unrighteous in our ownselves ? (Romans 5 verse 8)


For he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

Matthew 5 verse 45

Last edited by pcamps; 05-01-2010 at 05:02 AM..
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Old 05-01-2010, 11:19 AM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,215,590 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilene Wright View Post
Hi Mister,

I believe that those who did not have the opportunity to accept Christ in this life will be given the opportunity to do so in the next. That would only be fair, right? And God is a righteous, fair, just, and Holy God so everyone will be given a chance to accept Christ. There's nothing in the Bible that says we won't get a chance to hear the gospel after we die.

And as far as your own salvation........you have accepted Jesus Christ as your Savior haven't you? Then you're saved. You sound a lot like me, being baptized twice to make sure it took. It is so glorious to know that God is so loving that He gave His only Son for us and that this life is not the only place we can hear that good news.

Be secure in the knowledge that you are saved and that NO ONE can snatch you from your Father's hand. I used to be so extremely concerned about my own salvation and even now I can't understand why I can't hear from God when I pray or otherwise. But even if I can't hear Him I know He's listening. I have come to the knowledge that God is listening even though I feel that He may not be sometimes.....He's always listening. And He answers prayers because just yesterday I had one answered. It's all in His good time and what He desires for us. It always turns out differently than how I prayed for something.......God is full of surprises.

You wrote ...

Quote:
You sound a lot like me, being baptized twice to make sure it took.
That's funny Ilene ... I was baptized like ten times when i was a kid ...

Every time my father and his fellow ministers would take the church to the river or lake or pond ... I would have them baptize me again ...

I couldn't get enough of it it seems ...

Maybe i was preparing myself for all the horror i have experienced since then ...
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Old 05-01-2010, 12:01 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,299,193 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Sciota

A simple question , what was being demonstrated and pored unconditionally at the Cross towards all of us who come under the category of unrighteous in our ownselves ? (Romans 5 verse 8)


For he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

Matthew 5 verse 45
Redemption does not address your premise, or even holds weight and credibilty to or for it. Redemption is a "gift" of kindness and love, FOR THOSE WHO HAVE LOVED HIM UNCONDITIONALLY, because of our rebellion and sin, love for death and disobedience. You people don't get it. God made man. Man sinned against God. God CONDEMNED man. God provided a WAY out of condemnation. We are ALL damned WITHOUT CHRIST IN OUR LIVES. Get it?

And you folks still can't answer these scripturally supported, straight out of the text, questions with answers....straight out of the text!
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Old 05-01-2010, 01:42 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,725,440 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
We weren't talking about you or myself, who has it so easy behind our computers in anonymity. I'm talking about the Sudanese Christian whose entire life was turned upside down when the Muslims killed his family and friends, let alone his 2 year old daughter and 6 month old son....his only heir. Or how about the Palestinian Christian, who lost his wife, grandmother and enitre life worth and property to the continuous air strikes. Or better yet, the North Korean Christian, who can't even mutter a word about his faith or else his entire bloodline would be wiped out. This is the church. When someone is hurt, we hurt. His "reward" is justified.

Sound good to you?....Please don't preach to me about sacrifice. You can sit there and talk the talk, but can you really walk the walk and say afterward, that friggin guy who spit on Jesus' cross and then gets shot by the police, in that very church, for killing and molesting a 2 year old, don't worry, he will have his place in heaven.......give me a break.

UR shames Jesus Christ.
Saul did things just as bad as what you described, but was changed in an instant by God, with no forethought, faith, repentance, belief, or free will of Saul's own. Saul was transformed into Paul only because of God's mercy and for His purpose. Do you think the fact that Paul was transformed by God apart from his own decision-making process, shames Jesus Christ, sciotamicks?

Here's what the Bible says:
22For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23But each in his own turn:
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Old 05-01-2010, 01:51 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,250,755 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
We weren't talking about you or myself, who has it so easy behind our computers in anonymity. I'm talking about the Sudanese Christian whose entire life was turned upside down when the Muslims killed his family and friends, let alone his 2 year old daughter and 6 month old son....his only heir. Or how about the Palestinian Christian, who lost his wife, grandmother and enitre life worth and property to the continuous air strikes. Or better yet, the North Korean Christian, who can't even mutter a word about his faith or else his entire bloodline would be wiped out. This is the church. When someone is hurt, we hurt. His "reward" is justified.

Sound good to you?....Please don't preach to me about sacrifice. You can sit there and talk the talk, but can you really walk the walk and say afterward, that friggin guy who spit on Jesus' cross and then gets shot by the police, in that very church, for killing and molesting a 2 year old, don't worry, he will have his place in heaven.......give me a break.

UR shames Jesus Christ.
I cannot rep you...but I can commend you for this spot-on! post! God Bless you!
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Old 05-01-2010, 02:28 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,299,193 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
Saul did things just as bad as what you described, but was changed in an instant by God, with no forethought, faith, repentance, belief, or free will of Saul's own. Saul was transformed into Paul only because of God's mercy and for His purpose. Do you think the fact that Paul was transformed by God apart from his own decision-making process, shames Jesus Christ, sciotamicks?
What did he have......faith!

Quote:
Here's what the Bible says:
22For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23But each in his own turn:
Here's what the Bible says:

1 Cor 15:57 But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us ἡμῖν the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

You are way out of context in 1 Cor 15....again.

You still didn't answer my preliminary questions....again.
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Old 05-01-2010, 02:30 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,299,193 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
I cannot rep you...but I can commend you for this spot-on! post! God Bless you!
Thanks Verna...only for Christ!
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Old 05-01-2010, 03:43 PM
 
Location: East Coast
30,335 posts, read 20,066,943 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Redemption does not address your premise, or even holds weight and credibilty to or for it. Redemption is a "gift" of kindness and love, FOR THOSE WHO HAVE LOVED HIM UNCONDITIONALLY, because of our rebellion and sin, love for death and disobedience. You people don't get it. God made man. Man sinned against God. God CONDEMNED man. God provided a WAY out of condemnation. We are ALL damned WITHOUT CHRIST IN OUR LIVES. Get it?

And you folks still can't answer these scripturally supported, straight out of the text, questions with answers....straight out of the text!
God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man, (Romans 8 verse 3) Read the verse and see what was actually condemned)



When man fell he condemned Himself(God did not condemn him) by knowing good and evil , unfortunately for man the evil he knew condemned his conscience (unlike God who knew both good and evil but could not be tempted by it).So the evil he knew condemned himself and not God.

He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eatand live forever(Gen 3 verse 22), . Right from the getco God began to restore man back to himself (not the other way around,which orthodox christianity would have you believe and preterists apparently) by banishing him from the garden (to the carnal mind it looks like God was against man and condemned him, not so, and this is where you and like minded are not getting it , you see God against man rather than for him ).

God demonstrated His love (All that He is by nature and character) towards man at his very worst (Romans 5 verse 8) Redemption has absolutely nothing to do with us loving him unconditionally , i love him because he first loved me.

PS

What a wonderful Savior he is to begin to restore man back to himself at man's darkest hour.

Last edited by pcamps; 05-01-2010 at 03:56 PM..
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Old 05-01-2010, 04:15 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,299,193 times
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pcamps,

What is man but his sinful nature?

And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed [is] the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat [of] it all the days of thy life; Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;

Luke 6:26 Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

1 Cor 11:32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

Romans 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Verse 7-10 Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. And if Christ [be] in you, the body [is] dead because of sin; but the Spirit [is] life because of righteousness.

Rom 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? [It is] God that justifieth. Who [is] he that condemneth? [It is] Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

God sent him, en homoioµmati sarkos hamartias, kai peri hamartiasin the likeness of sinful flesh, and as a sacrifice for sin. The Septuagint calls a sacrifice for sin no more than peri hamartiasfor sin....so Christ was a sacrifice and he was sent to be so, Heb. 9:26. What was done by this appearance of His: Sin was condemned, that is, God did more than ever manifested his hatred of sin, and not only so, but for all that are Christ’s both the damning and the domineering power of sin is broken and taken out of the way. He that is condemned can neither accuse nor rule; his testimony is null, and his authority null.

Therefore, by Christ is sin condemned, though it lives and remains in the saints, it is still a condemned malefactor. It was by the condemning of sin that death was disarmed, and the devil, who had the power of death, destroyed. The condemning of sin saved the sinner from condemnation. Christ was made sin for us (2 Co. 5:21), and, being so made, when he was condemned sin was condemned in the flesh of Christ, condemned in the human nature: So was sanctification made to divine justice, and way made for the salvation of the sinner. Mankind is already condemned because of his nature. He is only relesed from that condemnation, in the profession of his faith - Romans 10:7.

And again, my questions are still not answered and the spin has begun again. Man is cursed and condemned. You, me, and everyone else in the world, and ONLY through Jesus Christ, in our profession fo faith in Him, shall we be saved. God had already reconciled mankind through Christ, this is fact, and this is why it is so important to spread the gospel, so that mankind can benefit from that reconciliation.
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Old 05-01-2010, 04:41 PM
 
Location: East Coast
30,335 posts, read 20,066,943 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
pcamps,

What is man but his sinful nature?

And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed [is] the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat [of] it all the days of thy life; Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;

Luke 6:26 Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

1 Cor 11:32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

Romans 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Verse 7-10 Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. And if Christ [be] in you, the body [is] dead because of sin; but the Spirit [is] life because of righteousness.

Rom 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? [It is] God that justifieth. Who [is] he that condemneth? [It is] Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

God sent him, en homoioµmati sarkos hamartias, kai peri hamartiasin the likeness of sinful flesh, and as a sacrifice for sin. The Septuagint calls a sacrifice for sin no more than peri hamartiasfor sin....so Christ was a sacrifice and he was sent to be so, Heb. 9:26. What was done by this appearance of His: Sin was condemned, that is, God did more than ever manifested his hatred of sin, and not only so, but for all that are Christ’s both the damning and the domineering power of sin is broken and taken out of the way. He that is condemned can neither accuse nor rule; his testimony is null, and his authority null.

Therefore, by Christ is sin condemned, though it lives and remains in the saints, it is still a condemned malefactor. It was by the condemning of sin that death was disarmed, and the devil, who had the power of death, destroyed. The condemning of sin saved the sinner from condemnation. Christ was made sin for us (2 Co. 5:21), and, being so made, when he was condemned sin was condemned in the flesh of Christ, condemned in the human nature: So was sanctification made to divine justice, and way made for the salvation of the sinner. Mankind is already condemned because of his nature. He is only relesed from that condemnation, in the profession of his faith - Romans 10:7.

And again, my questions are still not answered and the spin has begun again. Man is cursed and condemned. You, me, and everyone else in the world, and ONLY through Jesus Christ, in our profession fo faith in Him, shall we be saved. God had already reconciled mankind through Christ, this is fact, and this is why it is so important to spread the gospel, so that mankind can benefit from that reconciliation.
The Genesis verse you quote does not say man was condemned by God .

What is man but his sinful nature ?

One word , powerless

You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly (Romans 5 verse 6)Not the righteous,not those who have faith to move mountains, not the sabbath keepers, not those who believe they can love God unconditionally, not the preterists, not the universalists and every other ism under the sun, ,not those who know the bible back to front, not those who have studied greek and hebrew,not those who do or don't believe in the rapture, not those who have all their theology and doctrine nailed, none of these but the ungodly.

Christ Jesus came into this world to save sinners of whom i am the worst , to know this of yourself is the most liberating and humbling knowledge man can ever know and it will certainly keep him from condemning his fellow man (by using scripture) for what he deserves to be condemned for .

Kevin Prosch(great musician) said in one of his songs "You didn't condemn me so i gave myself up" .

Like i said orthodox christianity and preterists(apparently) do not get it , even the faith you have that is in his grace is given to you of God

Last edited by pcamps; 05-01-2010 at 04:59 PM..
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