U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 05-03-2010, 06:39 AM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,825 posts, read 9,853,779 times
Reputation: 1302

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by mistermister View Post
we all refer to pagans at some point. my question is, ...how is a pagan saved by gods grace if they are isolated from our missionary region.
will african tribes enter heaven if they believe in their god?
No they will not.

John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him."

John 17:3
Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mistermister View Post
what happened to those who died believing there was a god but never "accepted him"?
John 6:40
For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."

Quote:
Originally Posted by mistermister View Post
i have attended church my whole life and i defend christianity but im still unsure about my salvation. i was baptised twice - presbyterian and baptist -but still unsure. praying seems to be like talking to a wall...every now and then i get shivers listening to a song so i guess that the "spirit" but not really sure how to get god to talk back
2 Thessalonians 2:13
But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers loved by the Lord, because from the beginning God chose you to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth.

(need to go to work...later)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-03-2010, 07:20 AM
 
Location: SC Foothills
8,830 posts, read 9,777,276 times
Reputation: 58199
Quote:
Originally Posted by mistermister View Post
our pastor has been pushing that you can't get to heaven without a relationship with christ.
I don't think you've gotten a proper response to what you said here Mistermister. Your Pastor is correct in one sense, that you cannot obtain SALVATION without Christ. I'm still studying the reconciliation of all (universalism) so I cannot speak with authority on much of anything right now but I do not believe for one second that the African tribes you speak of or anyone else for that matter who has never heard of the gospel will be spending an eternity separated from God. I think they will have an opportunity to receive Him, whether in this life or the next. No one is going to "hell" that has never heard the gospel of Jesus Christ. And I'm still searching to find out if anyone will be going to an eternal hell, period.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-03-2010, 02:06 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,302,774 times
Reputation: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilene Wright View Post
No one is going to "hell" that has never heard the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Do you have a scriptural foundation to this idea?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-03-2010, 02:12 PM
 
Location: Italy
6,387 posts, read 5,129,674 times
Reputation: 866
Let's remember that the Pharisees required "scriptural proof" from Jesus, too!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-03-2010, 02:15 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,302,774 times
Reputation: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
See Bright Hope for tomorrow's reply.

You base your whole argument on God condemning man which this verse of scripture refutes.

For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

John 3 verse 17

So answer this question

So what or who is condemning man if God through the scriptures clearly states he is not condemning the world ?
God condemened man to death in Eden both because that was the just punishment of his sin and because through death, paradoxically, the spread of sin would be cut short, man would be led to repentance and Christ would descend into hades to save mankind. Again, Christís Sacrifice on the Cross was both a supreme act of love for fallen mankind and the restoration of justice in Godís relationship with man.

The Threat of Condemnation:

Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

The Condemnation:

Gen 3:17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed [is] the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat [of] it all the days of thy life; Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field. In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou [art], and unto dust shalt thou return.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-03-2010, 02:16 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,302,774 times
Reputation: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahigherway View Post
Let's remember that the Pharisees required "scriptural proof" from Jesus, too!
And some of them saw the proof and believed, some, did not.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-03-2010, 02:22 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,302,774 times
Reputation: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thy Kingdom Come View Post
No, but...
  • Isaiah 45:22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. 23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear. 24 Surely, shall one say, in the LORD have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed. 25 In the LORD shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.
  • Psalm 22:27 All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the LORD: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee. 28 For the kingdom is the LORD'S: and he is the governor among the nations. 29 All they that be fat upon earth shall eat and worship: all they that go down to the dust shall bow before him: and none can keep alive his own soul.




No...
  • Isaiah 9:17 Therefore the Lord shall have no joy in their young men, neither shall have mercy on their fatherless and widows: for every one is an hypocrite and an evildoer, and every mouth speaketh folly. For all this his anger is not turned away, but his hand is stretched out still.
But...
  • Revelation 15:4 Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? for thou only art holy: for all nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy judgments are made manifest.
  • Isaiah 26:9 With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness. 10 Let favour be shewed to the wicked, yet will he not learn righteousness: in the land of uprightness will he deal unjustly, and will not behold the majesty of the LORD. 11 LORD, when thy hand is lifted up, they will not see: but they shall see, and be ashamed for their envy at the people; yea, the fire of thine enemies shall devour them.
None of these verses prove UR, yet they do disprove them. The promise is counted for those who call out to God, none other.

Remember Thy, World is not the entire planet earth.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-03-2010, 02:26 PM
 
Location: East Coast
30,364 posts, read 20,092,063 times
Reputation: 2116
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
None of these verses prove UR, yet they do disprove them. The promise is counted for those who call out to God, none other.

Remember Thy, World is not the entire planet earth.
Well this verse counters your calling out to God claim

ďThere is no one righteous, not even one;
11there is no one who understands,
no one who seeks God. Romans 11
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-03-2010, 02:30 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,302,774 times
Reputation: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Well this verse counters your calling out to God claim

“There is no one righteous, not even one;
11there is no one who understands,
no one who seeks God. Romans 11
Seeking and calling out to Him are two different matters entirely.
Those elected, dragged and carried, call out to God, on their knees, or not. No one seeks Him, so no, it is not contrary to the doctrine at all. He elects, and we call. Mankind, in his own self sin nature, rebels, and never, on his own accord without the seed of grace and truth, seeks Him.

....specially those who believe......
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-03-2010, 02:58 PM
 
Location: East Coast
30,364 posts, read 20,092,063 times
Reputation: 2116
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Seeking and calling out to Him are two different matters entirely.
Those elected, dragged and carried, call out to God, on their knees, or not. No one seeks Him, so no, it is not contrary to the doctrine at all. He elects, and we call. Mankind, in his own self sin nature, rebels, and never, on his own accord without the seed of grace and truth, seeks Him.

....specially those who believe......
So what you are saying is he elects,drags and carry's some, but not others ?

He elects , seeks and finds , this is what a Savior is .

Do you really believe that a lifeguard would only pull from the perilous sea only those who call, then leave the rest to drown because they did not call ?.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top