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Old 05-02-2010, 05:19 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,295,475 times
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Eusebius,

Sorry...on the lord's day...typo...is that all you have though?

Quote:
It is to the future churches IN the Lord's day that these things shall occur swiftly
And that day was a past event. When those churches stood their ground.

Did this really happen when Babylon fell?

For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine

No it didn't. It's called apocalyptic language.

Or how about this?

Joel 2:10 The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining:

Fulfilled in the Pentacost:

Acts 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

Your timing is all messed up.
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Old 05-02-2010, 05:59 PM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,460,663 times
Reputation: 989
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Eusebius,

Sorry...on the lord's day...typo...is that all you have though?



And that day was a past event. When those churches stood their ground.

Did this really happen when Babylon fell?

For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine

No it didn't. It's called apocalyptic language.

Or how about this?

Joel 2:10 The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining:

Fulfilled in the Pentacost:

Acts 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

Your timing is all messed up.

Sciotamicks, first there must be a world-wide earthquake in which the cities of the nations fall, all the islands are moved and the great city divided into three parts. It ain't happened yet. Then the Lord returns.

The world-wide earthquake Revelation speaks of is one so severe that such has never happened since humanity was on the earth.
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Old 05-03-2010, 07:28 AM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,460,663 times
Reputation: 989
Quote:
Or how about this?

Joel 2:10 The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining:

Fulfilled in the Pentacost:

Acts 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;


Your timing is all messed up
Actually, my timing could't be better. Look at the whole quote by Peter:

Acts 2:16-20 CLV But this is that which has been declared through the
prophet Joel: (17) And it shall be in the last days,' (God is saying) 'I shall
be pouring out from My spirit on all flesh, And your sons and your
daughters shall prophesy, And your youths visions shall be seeing, And
your elders dreams shall be dreaming, (18) And surely on My men slaves
and on My women slaves in those days shall I be pouring out from My
spirit,' and they shall be prophesying." (19) And I will give miracles in
heaven above, And signs on the earth below, Blood and fire and vapor
pillars of smoke, (20) The sun shall be converted into darkness And the
moon into blood Ere the coming of the day of the Lord, The great and
advent day."

Did you notice what must occur before the coming of THE DAY OF THE LORD?
Notice that Blood and fire and vapor pillars of smoke, the Sun being converted into darkness and the moon being converted into blood must take place prior to the Lord's day. That has not happened yet.

While Jesus was alive His disciples asked Him:

"And what is the sign of Thy presence and of the conclusion of the eon?" (Mat 24:3).

Among many other things which must take place prior to His return He said:

Mat 24:29 Now immediately after the affliction of those days the sun shall
be darkened and the moon shall not be giving her beams, and the stars
shall be falling from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be
shaken."

Also, if the Lord returned in 70 A.D. (which He didn't) then He was supposed to have judged all the nations as to how they treated His brethren (Matthew 25:31-46) which He didn't.

So while it was true that according to Peter in quoting Joel that God would be pouring out His spirit and their sons and daughters would prophecy etc. it is also true that the other signs would have followed as well had God not set aside Israel until the complement of the nations are entering (Romans 11:25) and when that event occurs prophecy concerning Israel will be taken up again and then fulfilled.
And notice that John was in spirit in the Day of the Lord which is yet future.
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Old 05-03-2010, 02:05 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,295,475 times
Reputation: 420
Eusebius,

Did those things happens when Babylon fell? Or is it allegorical and apocalyptic language as it suggests?

Acts 2, the Pentacost, is the fulfillment of Joel 2. That is precisely what Peter said.....this is that.
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Old 05-03-2010, 03:02 PM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,460,663 times
Reputation: 989
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Eusebius,

Did those things happens when Babylon fell? Or is it allegorical and apocalyptic language as it suggests?

Acts 2, the Pentacost, is the fulfillment of Joel 2. That is precisely what Peter said.....this is that.
Dear friend, please provide book, chapter and verse concerning Babylon falling.

As to Joel, you have to take the whole and not just the part:

The only occurrence of the phrase in the Acts is in a quotation of Joel's prophecy regarding the outpouring of the Spirit on all flesh, an event which marks the cessation of the downtreading of the land and the settlement of Israel in quietness and confidence (Joel 2:28-32; Isa.32:15-18; Acts 2:17). Obviously that never happened. In fact just the opposite happened in which Jerusalem was destroyed and Israel laid waste and overrun by the Gentiles.

It is a fact that not everything occurred in Joel's prophecy which Peter alluded to in Acts 2. Notice Peter said these things would come before the day of the Lord:

Act 2:20 "The sun shall be converted into darkness And the moon into blood Ere the coming of the day of the Lord, The great and advent day."

When they were baptized in spirit THAT DAY was the sun converted into darkness and the moon into blood THAT DAY? No, of course not. That is yet future.
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Old 05-03-2010, 03:25 PM
 
965 posts, read 718,491 times
Reputation: 393
Quote:
Originally Posted by HalfNelson View Post
Hey, were you by any chance able to read post #28? Would love to get your feedback on whether that made more sense to you or not. It gives a proper break down of the 1000 years and then great detail on what the binding of Satan is really talking about. Most of the nonsensical stuff I see regarding this all stems from a complete lack of understanding about the 1000 years itself.
Read post 28. Very interesting.

Few questions related to this if you don't mind..

Satan is what? Angel gone bad? Created evil? (which I believe) Our collective consciences? (the id) Part of the flesh?

Earth laid waste at 2nd coming? No fleshly survivors?

Last one, how /what /why is he let loose again after the '1000' years?

Thanks in advance
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Old 05-03-2010, 06:14 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,405,317 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Actually, my timing could't be better. Look at the whole quote by Peter:

Acts 2:16-20 CLV But this is that which has been declared through the
prophet Joel: (17) And it shall be in the last days,' (God is saying) 'I shall
be pouring out from My spirit on all flesh, And your sons and your
daughters shall prophesy, And your youths visions shall be seeing, And
your elders dreams shall be dreaming, (18) And surely on My men slaves
and on My women slaves in those days shall I be pouring out from My
spirit,' and they shall be prophesying." (19) And I will give miracles in
heaven above, And signs on the earth below, Blood and fire and vapor
pillars of smoke, (20) The sun shall be converted into darkness And the
moon into blood Ere the coming of the day of the Lord, The great and
advent day."

Did you notice what must occur before the coming of THE DAY OF THE LORD?
Notice that Blood and fire and vapor pillars of smoke, the Sun being converted into darkness and the moon being converted into blood must take place prior to the Lord's day. That has not happened yet.

While Jesus was alive His disciples asked Him:

"And what is the sign of Thy presence and of the conclusion of the eon?" (Mat 24:3).

Among many other things which must take place prior to His return He said:

Mat 24:29 Now immediately after the affliction of those days the sun shall
be darkened and the moon shall not be giving her beams, and the stars
shall be falling from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be
shaken."

Also, if the Lord returned in 70 A.D. (which He didn't) then He was supposed to have judged all the nations as to how they treated His brethren (Matthew 25:31-46) which He didn't.

So while it was true that according to Peter in quoting Joel that God would be pouring out His spirit and their sons and daughters would prophecy etc. it is also true that the other signs would have followed as well had God not set aside Israel until the complement of the nations are entering (Romans 11:25) and when that event occurs prophecy concerning Israel will be taken up again and then fulfilled.
And notice that John was in spirit in the Day of the Lord which is yet future.
What does "Now immediately after the affliction of those days" mean?

You are saying that is a sign of the coming tribulation but it seems to be after the affliction.. so what is the "affliction of those days?"

If we read from verse 1 in Matt. 24 there are several things that must happen IMMEDIATELY before this verse...

The temple destroyed -
Rumors of wars, false messiahs -
famines and earthquakes in various places -
YOU (the people he was talking to) will be persecuted and killed -
gospel of the kingdom preached to whole world -
Then the end will come -

Sign: Abomination that causes desolation is seen by YOU (those people he was talking to) should flee to the mountains.

21For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.

This is the "affliction of those days" is it not? and THEN IMMEDIATELY after YOU (the people he was speaking to) see the affliction THEN he quotes Isaiah 13:10; 34:4. The son of Man appears and then we see in verse 34: I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.

So he is talking specifically to people standing around him at that time so how can you then say this refers to a time thousands of years into the future? The time line of things is jumbled according to what you have said... unless I have misunderstood your posts.
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Old 05-03-2010, 06:20 PM
 
Location: New York City
5,556 posts, read 6,725,643 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
What does "Now immediately after the affliction of those days" mean?

You are saying that is a sign of the coming tribulation but it seems to be after the affliction.. so what is the "affliction of those days?"

If we read from verse 1 in Matt. 24 there are several things that must happen IMMEDIATELY before this verse...

The temple destroyed -
Rumors of wars, false messiahs -
famines and earthquakes in various places -
YOU (the people he was talking to) will be persecuted and killed -
gospel of the kingdom preached to whole world -
Then the end will come -

Sign: Abomination that causes desolation is seen by YOU (those people he was talking to) should flee to the mountains.

21For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.

This is the "affliction of those days" is it not? and THEN IMMEDIATELY after YOU (the people he was speaking to) see the affliction THEN he quotes Isaiah 13:10; 34:4. The son of Man appears and then we see in verse 34: I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.

So he is talking specifically to people standing around him at that time so how can you then say this refers to a time thousands of years into the future? The time line of things is jumbled according to what you have said... unless I have misunderstood your posts.
I think the constant use of the personal pronoun "you/ye" that Jesus kept using [allegedly] in the chapter is often lost on people. Somehow even though he keeps referring to the people right in front of him, countless people insist to this very day that he was speaking to throngs of people at every OTHER period in history (since that time) than those he was actually speaking to.
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Old 05-03-2010, 09:41 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,295,475 times
Reputation: 420
...it's called entitlement.
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Old 05-08-2010, 05:08 AM
 
701 posts, read 659,433 times
Reputation: 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero 7 View Post
Read post 28. Very interesting.

Few questions related to this if you don't mind..

Satan is what? Angel gone bad? Created evil? (which I believe) Our collective consciences? (the id) Part of the flesh?
first off, I just want to apologize for not responding sooner. I haven't been responding on this forum, for the last week, due to finals in school. Regarding Satan, he is the angel that was once known as Lucifer. God never has nor ever will create anyone evil. Lucifer was created to have free will(the ability to make his own choices). He chose to let selfishness and pride take hold in his heart. If he had been created evil than he wouldn't have had a choice in the matter and therefore could not be held accountable for his actions. Just because God knew what choice Lucifer would make, doesn't mean God designed him to make that choice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero 7 View Post
Earth laid waste at 2nd coming? No fleshly survivors?
Yes that is correct.

2 Peter 3:10 “But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.”

Revelation 6:14 “And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.”



Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero 7 View Post
Last one, how /what /why is he let loose again after the '1000' years?
Well he is never technically "let loose" because he is technically never "bound". You see it all has to do with simply the chronology of events. When Christ comes the earth is laid to waist. Satan is then "bound" to this planet with nobody to tempt or torment (because they are all dead or in Heaven). Then, after the 1000 years Christ returns, with the new jerusalem, and those that were saved at his second coming. When He returns this 3rd time, all those that died at His 2nd coming, along with all those who were not resurrected at His 2nd coming, are at this time resurrected. Now satan has people to tempt and/or torment once again, and so he is "let loose" in a sense, to interact with them. it is at this time that he convinces everyone to attack this new city which has descended from Heaven. As they seek to overthrow the New Jerusalem, Christ stands in judgement of them and it is then that every knee shall bow and every voice shall proclaim that God is just. After they have been judged, the lake of fire is created and Satan and all his angels are thrown into it. Fire then consumes the rest of those that chose not God's kingdom, and after they are consumed completely, God remakes the Earth brand new and establishes His kingdom here eternally.
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