U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
 
Old 05-02-2010, 09:41 AM
 
191 posts, read 381,425 times
Reputation: 213

Advertisements

I have spent my entire life going to Christian churches. For the most part I consider this to be a valuable and necessary part of my life, especially intensive Bible study and the pursuit of living a life like Jesus. However, the intensive Bible study also leads to a very specific problem: the fact that church leaders pick and choose what parts of the Bible they want to believe in, then remind us that we cannot pick and choose in the Bible.

For example, in 1 Corinthians 11 it says that women should cover their heads in church. Also in 1 Corinthians it says that homosexuals will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

Now, I have never been to a Christian church where I have had to cover my head, but almost every Christian church tells me that homosexuality is wrong. Isn't this picking and choosing.

Oh, and I have brought this up to a pastor before and was told that head covering was a cultural tradition at the time and that this refers to showing respect in general. However, I gotta say that is a pretty unsatisfactory answer. I could just as easily say that culturally homosexuality was wrong at the time and now it is ok.

This is just one example of how I have seen this picking and choosing in action.
Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-02-2010, 09:52 AM
 
Location: Maryland
3,540 posts, read 5,958,358 times
Reputation: 971
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccr4tigers View Post
I have spent my entire life going to Christian churches. For the most part I consider this to be a valuable and necessary part of my life, especially intensive Bible study and the pursuit of living a life like Jesus. However, the intensive Bible study also leads to a very specific problem: the fact that church leaders pick and choose what parts of the Bible they want to believe in, then remind us that we cannot pick and choose in the Bible.

For example, in 1 Corinthians 11 it says that women should cover their heads in church. Also in 1 Corinthians it says that homosexuals will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

Now, I have never been to a Christian church where I have had to cover my head, but almost every Christian church tells me that homosexuality is wrong. Isn't this picking and choosing.

Oh, and I have brought this up to a pastor before and was told that head covering was a cultural tradition at the time and that this refers to showing respect in general. However, I gotta say that is a pretty unsatisfactory answer. I could just as easily say that culturally homosexuality was wrong at the time and now it is ok.

This is just one example of how I have seen this picking and choosing in action.

I'm reminded of the paraclete, who will be given to further instruct us.

Christ's word is still alive. It is not dead or static. We will continue, God willing, to better understand the message.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-02-2010, 10:10 AM
 
Location: South Jordan, Utah
6,652 posts, read 7,114,757 times
Reputation: 2840
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccr4tigers View Post
I have spent my entire life going to Christian churches. For the most part I consider this to be a valuable and necessary part of my life, especially intensive Bible study and the pursuit of living a life like Jesus. However, the intensive Bible study also leads to a very specific problem: the fact that church leaders pick and choose what parts of the Bible they want to believe in, then remind us that we cannot pick and choose in the Bible.

For example, in 1 Corinthians 11 it says that women should cover their heads in church. Also in 1 Corinthians it says that homosexuals will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

Now, I have never been to a Christian church where I have had to cover my head, but almost every Christian church tells me that homosexuality is wrong. Isn't this picking and choosing.

Oh, and I have brought this up to a pastor before and was told that head covering was a cultural tradition at the time and that this refers to showing respect in general. However, I gotta say that is a pretty unsatisfactory answer. I could just as easily say that culturally homosexuality was wrong at the time and now it is ok.

This is just one example of how I have seen this picking and choosing in action.
I did not find that in the verse you provided but I would say the head covering was probably not a commandment of God but more of a tradition.

As far as not inheriting the kingdom of God you need to read all of the context, everyone who is a sinner (which is everyone) can't go to heaven EXCEPT if they are saved by Jesus. But people love to clip versus to demonize people.

Another issue is the original word that is now transcribed as homosexual. Many people translate it as idolatrous sex, meaning people who had sex in the temples with pagan prostitutes as part of idol worship.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-02-2010, 10:16 AM
 
Location: SC Foothills
8,830 posts, read 9,745,070 times
Reputation: 58197
Yes, in every denomination there have been certain verses that I would say have been "held in higher regard" by the ones who instituted the denomination. That's why I'm not a member of a denomination....I think it's easier and more fruitful to do individual study. Not to say that group Bible studies can't be edifying, but there's always going to be a slant.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-02-2010, 10:19 AM
 
191 posts, read 381,425 times
Reputation: 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by hilgi View Post
I did not find that in the verse you provided but I would say the head covering was probably not a commandment of God but more of a tradition.

As far as not inheriting the kingdom of God you need to read all of the context, everyone who is a sinner (which is everyone) can't go to heaven EXCEPT if they are saved by Jesus. But people love to clip versus to demonize people.

Another issue is the original word that is now transcribed as homosexual. Many people translate it as idolatrous sex, meaning people who had sex in the temples with pagan prostitutes as part of idol worship.
I have read all of the context....the entire Bible, many, many times. Not that that makes me an expert. I am convinced I could read the Bible everyday for the rest of my life and certainly never be an expert.

I should have been more specific. 1 Corinthians 11:4-7 refers to women covering their heads and 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 is the passage on homosexuality. I specifically chose this passage because I have heard it quoted more than once by religious leaders as the reason for Christians feeling that homosexuality is wrong.

I agree that translation can be a problem. My point is that these are the very verses used to, as you put it, "demonize" certain groups. Yet, a few verses later Paul is very specific that women disgrace themselves if they do not cover her head/wear a veil.

I guess I am saying either you take every verse, or you admit that we, as modern Christians, do pick and choose which verses we follow.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-02-2010, 10:20 AM
 
191 posts, read 381,425 times
Reputation: 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilene Wright View Post
"held in higher regard"
What a lovely diplomatic way to put it!
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-02-2010, 10:41 AM
 
Location: South Jordan, Utah
6,652 posts, read 7,114,757 times
Reputation: 2840
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccr4tigers View Post
I have read all of the context....the entire Bible, many, many times. Not that that makes me an expert. I am convinced I could read the Bible everyday for the rest of my life and certainly never be an expert.

I should have been more specific. 1 Corinthians 11:4-7 refers to women covering their heads and 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 is the passage on homosexuality. I specifically chose this passage because I have heard it quoted more than once by religious leaders as the reason for Christians feeling that homosexuality is wrong.

I agree that translation can be a problem. My point is that these are the very verses used to, as you put it, "demonize" certain groups. Yet, a few verses later Paul is very specific that women disgrace themselves if they do not cover her head/wear a veil.

I guess I am saying either you take every verse, or you admit that we, as modern Christians, do pick and choose which verses we follow.
I don't see your first passage as being gospel related, it is just instructional to the church of Paulís day.

The second, look at the context, it lists a lot but he follows it with the BUT. Meaning the saving Grace of Jesus covers all those sins.

9Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.
11Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-02-2010, 01:10 PM
 
20,290 posts, read 15,633,754 times
Reputation: 7403
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccr4tigers View Post
I have spent my entire life going to Christian churches. For the most part I consider this to be a valuable and necessary part of my life, especially intensive Bible study and the pursuit of living a life like Jesus. However, the intensive Bible study also leads to a very specific problem: the fact that church leaders pick and choose what parts of the Bible they want to believe in, then remind us that we cannot pick and choose in the Bible.

For example, in 1 Corinthians 11 it says that women should cover their heads in church. Also in 1 Corinthians it says that homosexuals will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

Now, I have never been to a Christian church where I have had to cover my head, but almost every Christian church tells me that homosexuality is wrong. Isn't this picking and choosing.

Oh, and I have brought this up to a pastor before and was told that head covering was a cultural tradition at the time and that this refers to showing respect in general. However, I gotta say that is a pretty unsatisfactory answer. I could just as easily say that culturally homosexuality was wrong at the time and now it is ok.

This is just one example of how I have seen this picking and choosing in action.
It is the woman's long hair that is her covering as per 1 Corinthians 11:15.

See link...

1 Corinthians 11:15 but that if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For long hair is given to her as a covering.

Inheriting the kingdom and inhabiting the kingdom are two different things. All believers will inhabit the kingdom. All believers are eternally saved. But not all believers will inherit the kingdom. Not all believers will have eternal rewards.

It is true that most pastors aren't worth a lick of salt. However, God sees to it that in every generation of the church-age there are qualified pastor/teachers who faithfully study and teach so that the church-the body of Christ may be edified.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-02-2010, 03:41 PM
 
7,856 posts, read 6,660,208 times
Reputation: 1371
The ancient Corinthians customs are that if you did not look like them and they rejected you.... Whereas Jesus Christ does not have these customs, and if any body want to start a argument about this customs then Apostle Paul said they did not have any rules for the rejection of the argument in the face of these people for Holy Spirit.......Homosexuality is a spiritually a sin and believers that are free of the spirit that is leading mostly homosexuals do not want to be around these people, but they can be saved like every one else and filled with the Holy Spirit........Jesus just need to anoint people to be around sinners so they are free of the demons and still work around to spread the gospel...... Ususally the grace of God is not strong enough that demons can come and bother believer not gifted that believer patience will be tested........hard as that sounds .........Preacher ususally preach on subjects that they have a passion for and some understanding or gifting on .... If Preacher do not have understanding on a subject in the Word of God than They ususally Preach through the understanding of legalism rejecting the gifts of Holy Spirit......
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-02-2010, 08:03 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,259 posts, read 20,859,174 times
Reputation: 9943
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccr4tigers View Post
What a lovely diplomatic way to put it!
It's really true, though. You take absolutely any issue that divides Christians today from the need for baptism by water, to salvation by faith, by works, or by a combination of both, to universal reconciliation, to the nature of the Lord's Supper, to the Trinity, to the defining of scriptures itself, etc. etc. etc. and it is possible to make a very good case for your position by focusing on certain verses and ignoring others. I can't believe how people on this forum have come down on me for pointing that out, but it's the truth. We do it all the time, all of us. We decide what we believe and use the scriptures that support our belief to convince other people that their perspective is wrong. Then they pick up their scriptures and point to others that prove their position to be right. Then everybody starts telling everybody else that they aren't genuine, bonafide, Bible-believing Christians, and that they're preaching heresy. About that time, the moderators come along and close the thread and the whole process starts over in another thread.
Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


 
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:
Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top