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Old 05-10-2010, 10:29 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,390,644 times
Reputation: 1690

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
As I stated on another thread, God's will falls into three categories. God's directive will, God's overruling will, and God's permissive will.

Those interested may do a search on 'God's directive will, permissive will, and overruling will.'

I have provided one such result of the search...

www.gracebiblechurchbaytown.org/msword_docs/the.will.of.God.PDF (http://www.gracebiblechurchbaytown.org/msword_docs/the.will.of.God.PDF - broken link)

There are many more.

God permitted the fall. He gave man free will and the means to exercise that free will by placing the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the garden and then giving Adam a command to not eat of it. He did this to give Adam's free will something to work with so that Adam could choose to obey or disobey God. And it all has to do with the ANGELIC CONFLICT.

www.city-data.com/forum/christianity/885157-angelic-conflict-spiritual-warfare.html

Man's free will exists to resolve the angelic conflict.

There are always going to be people who will disregard the facts, and who will use scriptures that they don't understand in an attempt to advance their viewpoint however contrary to the word of God their viewpoint may be. It is useless to argue with these people.

I have provided some information to point in the right direction regarding the free will of man and why it exists, those who seek the truth. Those who care about the truth and want to understand why man has free will, and why man even exists can access the information. Those who aren't interested need not bother.

How much do you value knowledge of the truth? Each person reading this must ask himself this question. Your answer is between you and God.
You think then that a human must choose sides in an angelic conflict?

Is Jesus pitted against satan or God against satan?

If more people choose satan then does satan win?
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Old 05-10-2010, 10:46 AM
 
Location: Phoenix
2,617 posts, read 1,989,766 times
Reputation: 2409
"Free Willy" was a great movie, I really liked the soundtrack............wait a minute, I think I misread the title of the thread.
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Old 05-10-2010, 02:48 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,201,811 times
Reputation: 892
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
As I stated on another thread, God's will falls into three categories. God's directive will, God's overruling will, and God's permissive will.

Those interested may do a search on 'God's directive will, permissive will, and overruling will.'

I have provided one such result of the search...

www.gracebiblechurchbaytown.org/msword_docs/the.will.of.God.PDF (http://www.gracebiblechurchbaytown.org/msword_docs/the.will.of.God.PDF - broken link)

There are many more.

God permitted the fall. He gave man free will and the means to exercise that free will by placing the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the garden and then giving Adam a command to not eat of it. He did this to give Adam's free will something to work with so that Adam could choose to obey or disobey God. And it all has to do with the ANGELIC CONFLICT.

www.city-data.com/forum/christianity/885157-angelic-conflict-spiritual-warfare.html

Man's free will exists to resolve the angelic conflict.

There are always going to be people who will disregard the facts, and who will use scriptures that they don't understand in an attempt to advance their viewpoint however contrary to the word of God their viewpoint may be. It is useless to argue with these people.

I have provided some information to point in the right direction regarding the free will of man and why it exists, those who seek the truth. Those who care about the truth and want to understand why man has free will, and why man even exists can access the information. Those who aren't interested need not bother.

How much do you value knowledge of the truth? Each person reading this must ask himself this question. Your answer is between you and God.
If you are responsible for your choice to sin, then you are responsible for your choice to be saved. If you are responsible for your sin, your are also responsible for your salvation. Anyone who believes they are responsible for their own salvation takes the glory away from God and gives it to themselves. You boast mike ... Regardless of whether you can admit it or not.

If one deserves to be damned, then the other deserves to be saved. That is what the false doctrine of free will ultimately teaches. It is the very epitome of false human pride.
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Old 05-10-2010, 04:07 PM
 
20,301 posts, read 15,654,940 times
Reputation: 7415
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
If you are responsible for your choice to sin, then you are responsible for your choice to be saved. If you are responsible for your sin, your are also responsible for your salvation. Anyone who believes they are responsible for their own salvation takes the glory away from God and gives it to themselves. You boast mike ... Regardless of whether you can admit it or not.

If one deserves to be damned, then the other deserves to be saved. That is what the false doctrine of free will ultimately teaches. It is the very epitome of false human pride.
Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned.

John 8:23 ''You are from below, I am from above; you are of this world, I am not of this world. 24) I said therefore to you, that you shall die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am, you shall die in your sins.

Acts 16:31 Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9) not as a result of works, that no one should boast.

God holds man responsible to volitionally choose to receive the offer of salvation through faith in Christ.

The issue is stated in this manner.

John 3:36 ''He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.''

In order to avoid facing the fact that man must take the responsiblity to choose to receive God's offer of salvation, and in this life as there is no oportunity to do so after death-universalists, at least some of them, go so far as to deny that man is responsible for his own sins. In so doing, they must by default make God responsible for sin thus futher impugning His character. Universalism impugns God's holiness by alleging that God can and will save all men regardless of whether or not they obey the Gospel as per God's righteous requirements.

As I have said, there is no use attempting to reason with people who will not be reasoned with. Universalism is a cult. It is not Christianity, it is not Biblical.

I refer readers back to post #70 to enter the links provided, to gain an understanding of man's free will and how it relates to the angelic conflict.
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Old 05-10-2010, 04:17 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,201,811 times
Reputation: 892
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned.

John 8:23 ''You are from below, I am from above; you are of this world, I am not of this world. 24) I said therefore to you, that you shall die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am, you shall die in your sins.

Acts 16:31 Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9) not as a result of works, that no one should boast.

God holds man responsible to volitionally choose to receive the offer of salvation through faith in Christ.

The issue is stated in this manner.

John 3:36 ''He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.''

In order to avoid facing the fact that man must take the responsiblity to choose to receive God's offer of salvation, and in this life as there is no oportunity to do so after death-universalists, at least some of them, go so far as to deny that man is responsible for his own sins. In so doing, they must by default make God responsible for sin thus futher impugning His character. Universalism impugns God's holiness by alleging that God can and will save all men regardless of whether or not they obey the Gospel as per God's righteous requirements.

As I have said, there is no use attempting to reason with people who will not be reasoned with. Universalism is a cult. It is not Christianity, it is not Biblical.

I refer readers back to post #70 to enter the links provided, to gain an understanding of man's free will and how it relates to the angelic conflict.
The doctrine of "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" ...

Faith itself is a Gift, along with repentance ... How can you believe and receive before you have been given faith? The carnal man cannot understand the things of the spirit. Only after one has been born again in the spirit and given faith to believe and given repentance can they understand the things of the spirit of God. Before then they consider the things of the spirit of God as foolishness. And it is the wok of Christ in us, not our work, which saves us. For it is God who works within us both to will and to do of his good pleasure. His is the glory, not ours. One day you will understand this.

He who exalts himself shall be abased, and he who is humble shall be exalted.
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Old 05-10-2010, 06:25 PM
 
20,301 posts, read 15,654,940 times
Reputation: 7415
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
The doctrine of "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" ...

Faith itself is a Gift, along with repentance ... How can you believe and receive before you have been given faith? The carnal man cannot understand the things of the spirit. Only after one has been born again in the spirit and given faith to believe and given repentance can they understand the things of the spirit of God. Before then they consider the things of the spirit of God as foolishness. And it is the wok of Christ in us, not our work, which saves us. For it is God who works within us both to will and to do of his good pleasure. His is the glory, not ours. One day you will understand this.

He who exalts himself shall be abased, and he who is humble shall be exalted.


Romans 10:11 For the Scripture says, ''WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED.'' 13) for ''WHOEVER WILL CALL UPON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED.'' 14) How then shall they call upon Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? 15) And how shall they preach unless they have been sent? Just as it is written, ''HOW BEAUTIFUL ARE THE FEET OF THOSE WHO BRING GLAD TIDINGS OF GOOD THINGS!'' 16) However, they did not all heed the glad tiding; for Isaiah says, ''LORD, WHO HAS BELIEVED OUR REPORT?'' 17) So faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

God the Holy Spirit makes the Gospel understandable to the hearer of the Gospel. The Holy Spirit takes up the slack by acting as a human spirit and making the Gospel, which is spiritual phemonenon, perspicacious to the spiritually dead unbeliever. Upon understanding the Gospel, the hearer then makes a choice to either place his faith in Christ or not. If he does, then the Holy Spirit regenerates that person. He creates a human spirit and puts it within that person (Titus 3:5). At that point, God the Father imputes His very own eternal life and His perfect righteousness to that person and pronounces him justified. That is being born again. The purpose of the Gospel message is so that the issue may be understood and faith in Christ exercised.

This has all been gone over before in times past. And as you rejected it then, you will no doubt reject it now. But for the benefit of whoever will listen, there it is.

Final comment.

Readers may refer back to post #74.

Last edited by Mike555; 05-10-2010 at 06:40 PM..
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Old 05-10-2010, 06:44 PM
 
1,838 posts, read 1,932,056 times
Reputation: 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by baxendale View Post
"Free Willy" was a great movie, I really liked the soundtrack............wait a minute, I think I misread the title of the thread.
classic
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Old 05-10-2010, 07:22 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,201,811 times
Reputation: 892
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Romans 10:11 For the Scripture says, ''WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED.'' 13) for ''WHOEVER WILL CALL UPON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED.'' 14) How then shall they call upon Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? 15) And how shall they preach unless they have been sent? Just as it is written, ''HOW BEAUTIFUL ARE THE FEET OF THOSE WHO BRING GLAD TIDINGS OF GOOD THINGS!'' 16) However, they did not all heed the glad tiding; for Isaiah says, ''LORD, WHO HAS BELIEVED OUR REPORT?'' 17) So faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

God the Holy Spirit makes the Gospel understandable to the hearer of the Gospel. The Holy Spirit takes up the slack by acting as a human spirit and making the Gospel, which is spiritual phemonenon, perspicacious to the spiritually dead unbeliever. Upon understanding the Gospel, the hearer then makes a choice to either place his faith in Christ or not. If he does, then the Holy Spirit regenerates that person. He creates a human spirit and puts it within that person (Titus 3:5). At that point, God the Father imputes His very own eternal life and His perfect righteousness to that person and pronounces him justified. That is being born again. The purpose of the Gospel message is so that the issue may be understood and faith in Christ exercised.

This has all been gone over before in times past. And as you rejected it then, you will no doubt reject it now. But for the benefit of whoever will listen, there it is.

Final comment.

Readers may refer back to post #74.
Rhetoric a la the traditions of men in order to get around the scriptures ...

Faith is a gift, as well as repentance. Once a person is born again they repent and believe.

Thus salvation is 100% the work of God in Christ, and has nothing to do with us other than we are the ones being saved. Thus no one can boast. If it is up to you to make a good choice and to accept it(salvation), then you can boast. Logic 101 ... Learn to reason clearly and you may see the folly of your traditional indoctrination ...


Selah ...
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Old 05-10-2010, 07:33 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,288,619 times
Reputation: 420
Praise Glory Love Woship is all God wants, and He wants man to come to Him, not a forced behaviour....hence DRAWN to Him. Free will exists. It exists in man.
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Old 05-10-2010, 08:16 PM
 
Location: Somewhere
6,370 posts, read 5,630,903 times
Reputation: 575
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Praise Glory Love Woship is all God wants, and He wants man to come to Him, not a forced behaviour....hence DRAWN to Him. Free will exists. It exists in man.
But God IS Forcing us. You still believing in the illusion that He isn't.
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