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Old 05-29-2010, 06:13 PM
 
Location: US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marlbron View Post
Wanda,

If his prophesy did not happen then he is not the ONE! But it happend just about 6 days after in the transfiguration (Mathew 17:1), Peter James and John had a spiritual revelation of the power he will come with. That power is espoused in HIS brightness - brightness stands for unlimited power. The fact that the old prophets were there also had its significance. Shalom!
Are you Jewish?...
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Old 05-29-2010, 06:21 PM
 
Location: US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilene Wright View Post
Is this thread a joke? Or are you getting ready to claim you are Jesus or you know where He is?
If that is the case then I should quote this:

Matthew 24:23-25


23At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or, 'There he is!' do not believe it. 24For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible. 25See, I have told you ahead of time.
Ilene, he is setting you up...he is speaking of the Anti-Christ...New World Order?...get it?
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Old 05-29-2010, 06:46 PM
 
Location: US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Romulus0 View Post
Simple. The same way a jew would have taken it back in the Old Testament:

Isaiah 19

A Prophecy About Egypt

1 An oracle concerning Egypt:
See, the LORD rides on a swift cloud
and is coming to Egypt.
The idols of Egypt tremble before him,
and the hearts of the Egyptians melt within them.
2 "I will stir up Egyptian against Egyptian—
brother will fight against brother,
neighbor against neighbor,
city against city,
kingdom against kingdom.

According to the scripture, the Lord would ride into Egypt on a swift cloud when He judged Egypt. We can see the fulfillment just a chapter further:

Isaiah 20

A Prophecy Against Egypt and Cush

1 In the year that the supreme commander, sent by Sargon king of Assyria, came to Ashdod and attacked and captured it- 2 at that time the LORD spoke through Isaiah son of Amoz. He said to him, "Take off the sackcloth from your body and the sandals from your feet." And he did so, going around stripped and barefoot.
3 Then the LORD said, "Just as my servant Isaiah has gone stripped and barefoot for three years, as a sign and portent against Egypt and Cush, [a] 4 so the king of Assyria will lead away stripped and barefoot the Egyptian captives and Cu****e exiles, young and old, with buttocks bared—to Egypt's shame. 5 Those who trusted in Cush and boasted in Egypt will be afraid and put to shame. 6 In that day the people who live on this coast will say, 'See what has happened to those we relied on, those we fled to for help and deliverance from the king of Assyria! How then can we escape?' "

Isaiah 19 and 20 are the same thing. Egypt was attacked by the Assyrian King Essarhaddon in 670 B.C. and conquered. The Lord never physically came riding on a cloud but this scripture was fulfilled when He conquered Egypt through the Assyrian Empire.

The cloud comings in the Old Testament judgements were never physical. A jew hearing Christ's words would have understood this to be judgment language as used in the Books of Isaiah, Nahum, Ezekiel, Amos etc. The Old Testament is our guide to understood the judgement language used in the Old Testament.

God always used heathan armies in the Old Testament to carry out His will and the same goes for the New Testament. There are many examples of cloud comings and celestial events in the judgements against Babylon, Edom, Nineveh etc. and yet none of those events never physically happened.

Jesus was telling the sanhedrin and the disciples(and those around them) that they would witness His coming on the clouds in judgement. God used the Roman armies to judge Israel for her unfaithfulness in the destruction of the temple and Jerusalem in 70 A.D. The temple was the last sign of the Old Covenant. With it's destruction the sanhedrin knew that God no longer dwelled in houses of stone and more so, no longer with them.

It was because of their rejection of Christ that God sent the armies of Rome to destroy the house of Israel in 70 A.D. God judged Israel the same way He did other nations in the Old Testament and used judgement language just as He had always done in his judgements against other nations.

Does this make sense?
There is a logic to it...just as the plagues of Egypt were caused by natural disasters...but, the question is...how, did Moses know?...God used natural disasters to bring about the plagues...there is a DVD on it...
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Old 05-29-2010, 06:50 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HalfNelson View Post
what most people seem to not realize is that the generation Christ was referring to was not the disciples generation. He was speaking about the signs of the last days, and it was in this context that he refers to the generation that shall not pass. The generation that shall not pass is the one that sees the signs Christ was referencing. And as far as a generation being 2000 years, I have never in my life heard that one before. regarding Acts 1:11 the Angels were making it clear that Christ would return in the same way He left. When He left He ascended into the clouds, when He returns he will descend from the clouds, and Revelation 1:7 “Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.”
They also which pierced Him shall see Him?...Interesting....
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Old 05-29-2010, 06:52 PM
 
Location: US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marlbron View Post
If he had authority why did he tell his disciples that he could ask his Father to give him a legion of angels to release him from his tomentors? It was after he died that he got the reward for his assignment. Read John 17 1-end,
Heb 1: 1- 6
The Book Of Urantia...
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Old 05-30-2010, 01:56 AM
 
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I really commend your understanding of scripture. . Your take on Dan 11 was spot on! I think basically we are in agreement on most issues but we have a few sticking points. I want to also share some portions of Dan with you later.

Am sure some others would have been following the thread to appreciate our views on Mathew 24. Let me state the Bible verse Mathew 24: 1-3 for easy reference KJV.

1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?


Quote:
I have to disagree here. All Jesus said said was one thing, that:

The Temple would be destroyed.

Jesus did not state anything else. The disciples response to His statement was in regard to the only thing he states. Jesus did not state multiple events in that one statement. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever for the disciples to ask Him about a completely different event in the same conversation.

Jesus specifically stated a local event in Jerusalem that the temple standing before them would be destroyed.

Why would the disciples suddenly ask Him a totally unrelated question about a separate worldwide event, which was the end of the world in the same conversation?

It is like someone stating as they were in front of the empire state building that one day it would be destroyed. His friends would then take him aside and ask "oh when will this be, and by the way when also will the world be destroyed". This is exactly the same thing. Jesus never mentioned anything about the "end of the world" only the destruction of the then standing temple. It does not make sense that another event would be asked about in the same conversation. The destruction of the temple was shocking enough.

The disciples response was only to ask about the clear one statement about the temple. The questions they asked were then about one event:

1) When will these things be (temple be destroyed?)
2) What will be the sign of your coming(when the temple is destroyed?)
3) And of the end of the age (Temple was the sign the Old Covenant age was still in effect, it's destruction was the end of the age.)
From above it is clear that the disciples asked 3 questions from Jesus(see bolded and underlined quotes). Now it is possible that they (disciples) understood the destruction of their temple to mean his coming and the end of the world or the end of the age. It is possible and may indeed be the what they thought (these disciples were mere men who had not been imbibed with the Holy Ghost!). However, your conclusion that that was only what Jesus addressed seems to me that you are limiting the Lord based on the thoughts of his disciples. His response went beyond the destruction of the temple.

For example;

The Later Jewish holocaut perpertrated by Hitler and his armies was of greater intensity and significance that the earlier Roman caused holocaust. Going by your assumptios our Lord would have been incorrect in his statement?

As we see from world history, the world has experienced more earthquakes from the 20th century onwards more than at any other time. There have been more wars from the 20th century than at any other time. There have also been more false Christs this period than 40years after christ died. Many of the signs stated happened more than 40 years after his death. That is why I have tried to get you to look beyond the questioners (disciples) and focus on what message the Lord was sending out to them. Every part of the scripture is interstingly in agreement. If for argument sake we go by your reasoning that he will not necessarily come, then why did he tell John in the Revelation that he will come? And again in many verses of the bible? One portion cannot be right on its own and the other portions wrong.

If God made man and lived with man in the garden, you should see the propitation for our sins by HIS death as a way to return us back to the original intention of God, which the devil scuttled. By shedding his blood, he brought us back to HIMSELF. I hope you realise that after sin, God never dealt with man directly? All his dealings with man were done via angels - Jehova , Michael etc. At this end of time the scipture tells us emphatically .."the kingdoms of this world have become the throne of God and his Christ and he would reign for ever and ever...". Recall also the parable of the wicked husbandmen: The servants were sent - they were killed, the son was sent - he was killed... who will come at the end? Will it not be the Father, the Son and all the children of God. Christ tells us that at the end 'when the son of man will come with his holy angels..". I have gone to this lenght to show you that Our Lord Jesus Christ
Spoiler
will
has come again only that now he does not bear the former name. He has been promoted because of his earlier sacrifice. He is now the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords and he is now on earth! Someday, am sure you will remember this conversation, the whole world will come to this realization and would worship him. There will be one sheep under one shepard!


Quote:
Hebrews 9

8The Holy Spirit was showing by this that the way into the Most Holy Place had not yet been disclosed as long as the first tabernacle was still standing.
The temple at Jerusalem was a reminder of the first convenant, which had a ritualistic code to obtain repentance. I agree! This was set aside after the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. It did not need the physical destruction which occurrred 40 years later for the start of a new convenant with God. The new convenant started as soon as Christ was taken up and the disciples received the Holy Ghost. Previously their baptism was incomplete, which was Ok as Christ was still with them. After they received the gift of Holy Spirit, their baptism was now complete, they were then able to preach and they were emboldened. However, I see the significance of the temple destruction in the light of Heb 9, but that temple was already destroyed by the shedding of blood, otherwise you imply that early Christians had their salvation delayed waiting on the destruction of the physical temple? How about Stephen who was stoned to death by Saul's henchmen? Did he not receive salvation? See why this line of reasoning does not wash? Note also that when Christ died in the cross, the veil of the temple was torn from bottom to the top! What further proof do you need that the old order had expired?

Stay blessed.

On another subject, I would like to get your understanding on reincarnation in the light of Elijah and John the Baptist.
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Old 05-30-2010, 06:50 AM
 
Location: US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marlbron View Post
I see your point, but remember that Genesis was written by Moses who was inspired by angels. The writing of Genesis and indeed some of the Bible books showed some gaps. Even the Bible admits that itself. Like when it says the spirit of God was moving in the water - How long did that take place? When were the angels created? The same time he created man? Moses did not cover that or did he?

There are certain truths about creation which I'd rather not disclose at this juncture. The most important thing now is to understand that not everything was covered in the Bible. That is not saying the Bibe is wrong! But it just means that our absolute conclusion of bibilical text could be wrong.

Science is wrong in couple of issues- issues beyond its own ability to reason, but science is also right in a lot of isues, like dating etc. That we are discussing in this forum is a testament to science. Don't just diss of science.
There are disagreements to whether Moses wrote Genesis...The First and second books of Adam and Eve and the First and Second books of Enoch have the same style of writing as do the first five books of the bible...they all seem to have been written by the same person...
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Old 05-30-2010, 07:15 AM
 
Location: US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mercy777 View Post
1 John 3:1 How great is the love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are! The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know him.
1 Corinthians 1:21
For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.
The first time Jesus came, the world did not know him. The world still does not know him. The ones who believe do know him.
The second time Jesus comes, there will be no doubt. He has not come yet.
Revelation 1:7 Look, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him; and all the peoples of the earth will mourn because of him. So shall it be! Amen.

Romans 14:11 It is written: " 'As surely as I live,' says the Lord, 'every knee will bow before me; every tongue will confess to God.' " [ Isaiah 45:23]
It will not matter what anyone wants or desires, it will be done as the Lord spoke. Whether you love him or not, everyone will bow and confess He Is who he says.
Come Lord Jesus, Come!

God Bless,
Mercy
Your understanding has not yet matured and seems to be centered only around one thing...These folks are discussing things a lot deeper than you are able to yet understand and attempting to tie the pieces together with logic and reason and to reach a deeper understanding of the Word of God...Maybe if you read their posts and meditate on them you might learn something that you thought you knew but realize that you don't...instead os throwing some arbitrary "UR" verses in there that really have nothing to do with where they are going with this discussion...
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Old 05-30-2010, 12:10 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Are you Jewish?...
No am not, but by being baptized of the Holy Ghost, I am now from one of the tribes of Israel. All persons who accept the baptism of the Holy Spirit have this common paternity - the paternity of Abraham and the gifts of Sonship that goes with it.

Quote:
There are disagreements to whether Moses wrote Genesis...The First and second books of Adam and Eve and the First and Second books of Enoch have the same style of writing as do the first five books of the bible...they all seem to have been written by the same person...
There are arguments over authorship, but most if not all the knowledge existing pre-Christ came from Moses who was given so much knowledge via the angels. However, the era of Moses is gone with the old order. But I discover that most groups still revel in the teaching of Moses!
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Old 05-30-2010, 09:14 PM
 
118 posts, read 147,759 times
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Quote:
I really commend your understanding of scripture. . Your take on Dan 11 was spot on! I think basically we are in agreement on most issues but we have a few sticking points. I want to also share some portions of Dan with you later.
Hi Marlbron,


Thanks! Lets discuss.

A
Quote:
m sure some others would have been following the thread to appreciate our views on Mathew 24. Let me state the Bible verse Mathew 24: 1-3 for easy reference KJV.

1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?


From above it is clear that the disciples asked 3 questions from Jesus(see bolded and underlined quotes). Now it is possible that they (disciples) understood the destruction of their temple to mean his coming and the end of the world or the end of the age. It is possible and may indeed be the what they thought (these disciples were mere men who had not been imbibed with the Holy Ghost!). However, your conclusion that that was only what Jesus addressed seems to me that you are limiting the Lord based on the thoughts of his disciples. His response went beyond the destruction of the temple.

For example;

The Later Jewish holocaut perpertrated by Hitler and his armies was of greater intensity and significance that the earlier Roman caused holocaust. Going by your assumptios our Lord would have been incorrect in his statement?

As we see from world history, the world has experienced more earthquakes from the 20th century onwards more than at any other time. There have been more wars from the 20th century than at any other time. There have also been more false Christs this period than 40years after christ died. Many of the signs stated happened more than 40 years after his death. That is why I have tried to get you to look beyond the questioners (disciples) and focus on what message the Lord was sending out to them. Every part of the scripture is interstingly in agreement. If for argument sake we go by your reasoning that he will not necessarily come, then why did he tell John in the Revelation that he will come? And again in many verses of the bible? One portion cannot be right on its own and the other portions wrong.
I am a little confused. According to my argument, He must have come within a generation as He said He would. Can you see that if we limit the prophecy to the destruction of the temple, all was accomplished if we go according to only Christ's words.

My point is that if we interpret Christ's words to mean a generation(2000+ years later) it changes the meaning of Christ's words to not mean their plain meaning and that Jesus would have no reason to include another event that was worldwide in His answer to the disciples questions. Again, Jesus only stated that the temple was destroyed, that's it!

I 100% agree with you that the holocaust does not compare to the 70 A.D. judgement but there is a reason for Christ to limit Matthew 24 to the 1st Century in Jerusalem only.

Matthew 24

15"So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation,'[b] spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.


Luke 21

20"When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near. 21Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city.


Mark 13

4"When you see 'the abomination that causes desolation'[a]standing where it[b] does not belong—let the reader understand—then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.


Do you see that the warning was only given in Judea? Why would Jesus do this, if this was a worldwide event? The only reason that is in harmony with the scriptures is that it was a local event in Jerusalem.

This fits nicely into the one statement that the temple and Jerusalem would be destroyed:

Matthew 23

37"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing. 38Look, your house is left to you desolate. 39For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, 'Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.'[d]"

Matthew 24

1Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings.

2"Do you see all these things?" he asked. "I tell you the truth, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.


Matthew 23 and 24 go hand in hand. Scripture is picking up directly after Jesus spoke and declared the house(temple) of Israel desolate. The very terminology that Christ declared ALL THESE THINGS would happen to "this generation" is forcing a local event within a generation(40 years.)

The holocaust which was a greater in numbers against the jews than 70 A.D. is not how we should interpret:

Matthew 24

21For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.


This scripture is limited to the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem, a local event. Jesus was stating not that the jews would witness the greatest tribulation, never to be equaled again, but He limited this statement to only Jerusalem and the temple.

Jerusalem, would never experience a greater tribulation(distress) when Matthew 24 was to be fulfilled and Jerusalem never will. 70 A.D. against Jerusalem would never be equaled again. This is fulfilling Christ's prophecy exactly when it would happen. Do you see that Matthew 24, if we limit it directly to the temple, we do not add any other event but the one Jesus stated would happen, and that only to Jerusalem?

Otherwise, why would He state the warning only to Judea, if it was to be worldwide?

Ethnic Israel was done away with when the New Covenant came into effect. It was no longer limited to just the jews but also to the gentiles. Remember the scriptures concerning the remnant?

Romans 9

27Isaiah cries out concerning Israel:
"Though the number of the Israelites be like the sand by the sea,
only the remnant will be saved.

Romans 11

5So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace.



The Remnant of Israel were believing jews such as the disciples and the thousands who received Christ.

Quote:
If God made man and lived with man in the garden, you should see the propitation for our sins by HIS death as a way to return us back to the original intention of God, which the devil scuttled. By shedding his blood, he brought us back to HIMSELF. I hope you realise that after sin, God never dealt with man directly? All his dealings with man were done via angels - Jehova , Michael etc. At this end of time the scipture tells us emphatically .."the kingdoms of this world have become the throne of God and his Christ and he would reign for ever and ever...". Recall also the parable of the wicked husbandmen: The servants were sent - they were killed, the son was sent - he was killed... who will come at the end? Will it not be the Father, the Son and all the children of God. Christ tells us that at the end 'when the son of man will come with his holy angels..". I have gone to this lenght to show you that Our Lord Jesus Christ
Spoiler
will
has come again only that now he does not bear the former name. He has been promoted because of his earlier sacrifice. He is now the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords and he is now on earth! Someday, am sure you will remember this conversation, the whole world will come to this realization and would worship him. There will be one sheep under one shepard!
We should also remember that Christ stated:

Matthew 21

43"Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit. 44He who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces, but he on whom it falls will be crushed."[j]

45When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard Jesus' parables, they knew he was talking about them.


This prophecy was limited to the Pharisees who heard Jesus speak the prophecy. He was talking about them, not the 21st century. The Kingdom was given to the faithful of Israel and the gentiles who did not reject Christ, but just as every generation after(including us) whether jew or gentile.

Daniel 12 was also fulfilled. You are correct that God did not directly deal with man until this was to be fulfilled and rather the entire time before Christ. Sin had to be completely atoned for, for man to enter God's presence once more, just as Adam had been.

If this was unfulfilled, then God does not deal with man yet. We must limit this to the time when Daniel 12, Matthew 23/24, Luke 21, Mark 13 and Revelation were not fulfilled yet, your argument was true until A.D. 70.

I will comment further, after your next comment.

Quote:
Even though
The temple at Jerusalem was a reminder of the first convenant, which had a ritualistic code to obtain repentance. I agree! This was set aside after the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. It did not need the physical destruction which occurrred 40 years later for the start of a new convenant with God. The new convenant started as soon as Christ was taken up and the disciples received the Holy Ghost. Previously their baptism was incomplete, which was Ok as Christ was still with them. After they received the gift of Holy Spirit, their baptism was now complete, they were then able to preach and they were emboldened. However, I see the significance of the temple destruction in the light of Heb 9, but that temple was already destroyed by the shedding of blood, otherwise you imply that early Christians had their salvation delayed waiting on the destruction of the physical temple? How about Stephen who was stoned to death by Saul's henchmen? Did he not receive salvation? See why this line of reasoning does not wash? Note also that when Christ died in the cross, the veil of the temple was torn from bottom to the top! What further proof do you need that the old order had expired?
True, the temple curtain was torn in two, but Hebrews limits the fulfillment until the complete atonement was done which would have to take place after the crucifixion. If salvation/atonement was completed directly after the cross then why does Hebrews state the following still needed to be done?

Hebrews 9

SACRIFICE-Earth

9This is an illustration for the present time, indicating that the gifts and sacrifices being offered were not able to clear the conscience of the worshiper.

11When Christ came as high priest of the good things that are already here,[b] he went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not man-made, that is to say, not a part of this creation. 12He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, having obtained eternal redemption.

14How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death,[c] so that we may serve the living God!

15For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.

ATONEMENT-Acension(heaven)

24For Christ did not enter a man-made sanctuary that was only a copy of the true one; he entered heaven itself, now to appear for us in God's presence. 25Nor did he enter heaven to offer himself again and again, the way the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood that is not his own. 26Then Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But now he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself.

APPEARING-Earth

28so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.


Do you see what Christ is doing? He is fulfilling the role of the high priest in the Old Covenant "Day of Atonement" once and for all. If Hebrews 9:28 is not fulfilled Salvation HAS NOT COME. The atonement and appearing was AFTER the crucifixion and Hebrews was clear, that the complete atonement, including His appearing had to be completed for Salvation to come, and for man to be in God's presence.

If the forgiveness of sins was completed at the cross, then why did Paul state (after the crucifixion and ascension) the following statements:

Romans 8

23Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.


Romans 13

11And do this, understanding the present time. The hour has come for you to wake up from your slumber, because our salvation is nearer now than when we first believed.


Do you see the connection here? If Salvation was fulfilled at the cross, why did Paul say the above statements. It was because Hebrews 9 was not totally fulfilled yet. The appearing had not happened yet. It was Christ's appearing in the destruction of the last sign of the Old Covenant, the temple in Jerusalem.

Why did Paul state that he and the rest of his audience were

1) Waiting for their "adoption as sons" and
2) "our salvation is nearer now than we first believed"
?

This appearing fits with Hebrews 9:

Hebrews 9

8The Holy Spirit was showing by this that the way into the Most Holy Place had not yet been disclosed as long as the first tabernacle was still standing.


The tabernacle(temple) was the event that fulfilled our way into the most Holy Place(God's presence) through the completion of the atonement and sin. Remember, the appearing was

Unto Salvation

Without it, Salvation has not yet come.

Do you see the 3 stages of atonement in the Old Covenant and it's fulfillment in Christ in Hebrews 9?

Quote:
On another subject, I would like to get your understanding on reincarnation in the light of Elijah and John the Baptist.
I am still a little confused as to what you mean by this?

Quote:
Stay blessed.
You to Marlbron!

Last edited by Romulus0; 05-30-2010 at 09:25 PM..
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