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Old 05-08-2010, 01:32 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,418,381 times
Reputation: 1690

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
Why wouldn't it make more sense to study both sides of the issue? Just wondering.
Yes... Why wouldn't you provide both sides if you really want to discover the TRUTH?

 
Old 05-08-2010, 01:47 PM
 
20,354 posts, read 15,740,470 times
Reputation: 7507
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
Why wouldn't it make more sense to study both sides of the issue? Just wondering.
The informational resources provided in the original post are objective and tell what universalism is about and expose it as a false teaching. And without the name calling, insults, ridicule or twisting of the facts that are encountered on this forum from those who promote universalism.
 
Old 05-08-2010, 01:54 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,418,381 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
The informational resources provided in the original post are objective and tell what universalism is about and expose it as a false teaching. And without the name calling, insults, ridicule or twisting of the facts that are encountered on this forum from those who promote universalism.
What those links DO prove is that their understanding of Universalism is flawed. They are certainly not objective... the title of the first one is: Universalism- a Problem for Everyone

I don't think you can rightly state this is an unbiased presentation of facts which one can use to look objectively at universal salvation...

Snippet from Mike's OP first link:
"
Universalism teaches that all religions are worshipping the same God in different ways. This is what is known as syncretism. Some are teaching there are Messianic Muslims, that they can accept certain aspects of Jesus and still go back to practice Islam. Others say that God was in various cultures before Christianity and these cultures had a valid concept of God. That Christ reaffirms what they have known in their cultures practice. What is proposed is that no matter which religion is practiced, there are some common denominators we can unite and agree on, that they all have different roads that lead to the same destination."

Is this representative of universal salvation?
 
Old 05-08-2010, 02:09 PM
 
20,354 posts, read 15,740,470 times
Reputation: 7507
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
What those links DO prove is that their understanding of Universalism is flawed. They are certainly not objective... the title of the first one is: Universalism- a Problem for Everyone

I don't think you can rightly state this is an unbiased presentation of facts which one can use to look objectively at universal salvation...

Snippet from Mike's OP first link:
"
Universalism teaches that all religions are worshipping the same God in different ways. This is what is known as syncretism. Some are teaching there are Messianic Muslims, that they can accept certain aspects of Jesus and still go back to practice Islam. Others say that God was in various cultures before Christianity and these cultures had a valid concept of God. That Christ reaffirms what they have known in their cultures practice. What is proposed is that no matter which religion is practiced, there are some common denominators we can unite and agree on, that they all have different roads that lead to the same destination."

Is this representative of universal salvation?
As the poster says, the above paragraph is a only a Snippet. Those who want the truth of the matter read the material in the links provided and don't be mislead by those who promote universalism.
 
Old 05-08-2010, 02:45 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,310 posts, read 21,003,321 times
Reputation: 10009
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
What those links DO prove is that their understanding of Universalism is flawed.
That is without a doubt the most intelligent statement anyone has made so far. When people denounce something, they ought to at least understand what they are denouncing. They ought to get their facts straight -- i.e. what do universalists really believe? -- before trying to prove them wrong.
 
Old 05-08-2010, 02:47 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,310 posts, read 21,003,321 times
Reputation: 10009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
And without the name calling, insults, ridicule or twisting of the facts that are encountered on this forum from those who promote universalism.
Oh, Mike, please... You know both sides are equally guilty of this. Why do you think the moderators have been so busy on this thread? Look at their edits. It definitely hasn't been all one-sided.
 
Old 05-08-2010, 03:16 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,700 posts, read 32,146,550 times
Reputation: 9455
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Those who have an interest in the truth, would do well to simply ignore the comments being made on this thread by those who would obscure the truth, and simply study the material provided in the first post, which is the reason I posted it.

There was a non-debate thread labeled "why do you believe UR", and debating the issue was not allowed, only pro-UR posts were allowed. When I posted proof that UR was a sham, I had my posts deleted. Perhaps the mods could do the same here and dedicate this thread only to those who came here to discuss why UR is not biblical.

Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 05-08-2010 at 03:24 PM..
 
Old 05-08-2010, 03:30 PM
 
5,754 posts, read 4,605,909 times
Reputation: 4181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
. Perhaps the mods could do the same here and dedicate this thread only to those who came here to discuss why UR is not biblical.
I don't have a problem with that.
If someone is seeking truth, God will lead them.
Truth shines through and pierces the hearts of those who seek out His ways.

Post away.
peace,
sparrow
 
Old 05-08-2010, 03:36 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,700 posts, read 32,146,550 times
Reputation: 9455
Here is one popular quesion often asked by URs when they try to prove there is contradiction in the Bible (from Questions Without Answers)

Q: If the demands of divine justice are opposed to the requirements of mercy, is not God divided against Himself?

A: Ridiculous question! God did not sin, man did. When man sinned, death entered in by sin(Romans 5:12). Mankind has a problem with death, God does not for only God is immortal and incorruptible (1Tim 6:16, 1:17). Man is mortal and corruptible (1Cor 15:42-54). God must punish all presence of sin because there is no darkness in God whatsoever. If anyone rejects the only perfect sacrifice paid on the cross by Jesus Christ, there remains no other sacrifice for sin (Hebrews 10:26). Time does not wash away sin, nor does punishment, nor does paying with money. Only the blood of Jesus Christ and there is no other name given (Acts 4:12).
 
Old 05-08-2010, 03:41 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,700 posts, read 32,146,550 times
Reputation: 9455
More popular UR arguments (from Questions Without Answers)

Q: If God CAN save all men, but WILL NOT, is He infinite in goodness?

A: Yes, all of God's attributes are infinite. It is the sin of mankind that is not good. God cannot be a part of any sin whatsoever. God does not force salvation unto all creation. God did not force Lucifer to fall from heaven, it was Lucifer HIMSELF (Ezekiel 28:17) that corrupted himself. Not God. Likewise with Adam and Eve. Both were created in perfection, completely immortal until they chose to sin which brought forth death.


Q: Does God DESIRE the salvation of all men? (1 Tim. 2:3-4)

A: Yes, of course, but there is a big difference between "all" will come to repentance versus "all" should come to repentance. God did not desire for sin to enter into the Garden of Eden, nor it is God's desire that Christian's still sin either. God is never desirous of sin.
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