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Unread 05-08-2010, 05:11 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 893,422 times
Reputation: 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Having come face to face with the issue, those who end up in hell have only themselves to blame.
...and those who end up in heaven have only themselves to be proud of for making such a wise decision.

 
Unread 05-08-2010, 05:48 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,210 posts, read 2,879,395 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
See my previous comment. Plus, God forced us to be born sinners, but He won't force us into salvation?
God forced us to be sinners huh? Can you provide us an exegesis of this?
 
Unread 05-08-2010, 05:48 PM
 
3,741 posts, read 1,861,753 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
...and those who end up in heaven have only themselves to be proud of for making such a wise decision.
Pretty much.

Don't people see how their views are essentially taking AWAY from the cross when they proclaim these things? "I CHOSE Jesus". May as well say "I SAVED MYSELF!"
 
Unread 05-08-2010, 06:03 PM
 
11,398 posts, read 5,226,530 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .sparrow. View Post
So I can get a correct understanding of you, can you please tell me what you see hell as being?
First, hell is not hades, though some erroneously refer to it as thus.

The place often called 'hell' is properly the place which has been prepared for the devil and his angels in Matt 25:41,46 and is identified in Matt. 10:28 as Gehenna in the Greek. It is the place where Jesus said that both body and soul are destroyed. The soul is not destroyed in the garbage dump outside of Jerusalem. The soul and body are destroyed in the lake of fire. And the word 'destroyed' does not mean cessation of existence. It means eternal ruin and uselessness and torment.

Strong's number for Perish is G622.

The following is from the P-R-E-C-E-P-T*** A-U-S-T-I-N website

Perish (622) (Apollumi from apo = away from or wholly + olethros = state of utter ruin <> ollumi = to destroy <> root of apollyon (Rev 9:11): destroyer) means to destroy uttery but not caused to cease to exist.

Apollumi as it relates to men, is not the loss of being per se, but is the loss of well-being. It means to ruin so that the person (or thing) ruined can no longer serve the use for which he (it) was designed. To render useless. The gospel promises everlasting life for the one who believes. The failure to possess this life will result in utter ruin and eternal uselessness (but not a cessation of existence).

Apolumi then has the basic meaning of describing that which is ruined and is no longer usable for its intended purpose.

Apolumi is the term Jesus used to speak of those who are thrown into hell (Matt. 10:28): As He makes clear elsewhere, hell is not a place or state of nothingless or unconscious existence, as is the Hindu Nirvana but is the place of everlasting torment, the place of eternal death, where there will be ''weeping and gnashing of teeth (Mt. 13:42,50)

( Romans 2:9-12 Commentary )

Hell-the eternal fire-the lake of fire is that place where those who do not obey the gospel will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power as per 2 Thess. 1:9. Now 2 Thess 1:9 is not talking about the Great White throne judgment of Revelation 20:11-15, as that judgment takes place a thousand years later at the end of the Millennium. 2 Thes. 1:9 as does Matt. 25:41,46 refers to the judgment that comes to unbelievers at the Second Advent of Christ at the end of the Tribulation. It seems that those who are cast off the earth at the return of the Lord at the Second Advent are cast into the lake of fire rather than Hades. In either case, ultimately, all unbelievers end up in the lake of fire as per Revelation 20:11-15.

Hell, the lake of fire is that place where those who want nothing to do with God will spend eternity.

In the Millennium, even though Jesus Christ is physically present on the earth, ruling on the throne of David from Jerusalem, there are going to be many who still won't believe in Him. Jesus Christ, God manifest in the flesh, in resurrected body will be on the earth, and the earth will be full of His glory, and there will still be vast multitudes of people who will reject Him and who will be deceived by Satan when he is temporarily released from his prison at the end of the Millennium to deceive the nations of the earth and incite a revolution as per Revelation 20:7-9. And then Jesus will send fire to devour the rebels and Satan will at that time be thrown permanently into the lake of fire where the beast and the false prophet are also as per Revelation 20:10.

Refer to the following link...


Excerpt:

Quote:
The mere fact that Christ utilized the rabbinic lanquage connected with Gehenna such as 'unquenchable fire' and 'never dying worms,' demonstrates beyond all doubt to any reasonable person that He deliberately used the word Gehenna to impress upon His hearers that eternal punishment awaits the wicked after the resurrection. No other conclusion is possible.
BIBLE STUDY MANUALS: SHEOL, GEHENNA, HADES AND THE AFTERLIFE - A BIBLICAL PERSPECTIVE

Last edited by Mike555; 05-08-2010 at 06:18 PM..
 
Unread 05-08-2010, 06:04 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 893,422 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
God forced us to be sinners huh? Can you provide us an exegesis of this?
We were all born. We are all sinners. We didn't ask to born and God didn't give us a choice in the matter. God forced us to be born sinners.

I doubt there's a verse that says we were all born, but that's obvious. There are many that say we are all born sinners.
 
Unread 05-08-2010, 06:10 PM
 
3,741 posts, read 1,861,753 times
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Mike, With all due respect brother... I don't want to read other's words. I want to read YOUR words. YOUR views. Not some link or website to another's thoughts and views. Just simply stated.
Now with that said, I did manage to get one sentence out of all of that:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
It means eternal ruin and uselessness and torment.
So is that what YOU believe some of the beings that GOD brought into existence are destined for? ETERNAL (forever and ever and ever?) RUIN and USELESSNESS and TORMENT???

Truly. Is that your belief?
 
Unread 05-08-2010, 06:16 PM
 
11,398 posts, read 5,226,530 times
Reputation: 1518
Quote:
Originally Posted by .sparrow. View Post
Pretty much.

Don't people see how their views are essentially taking AWAY from the cross when they proclaim these things? "I CHOSE Jesus". May as well say "I SAVED MYSELF!"
To the contrary...

Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace you have been saved THROUGH FAITH; and that not of yourselfs, it is the gift of God; 9) not as a result of works, that no one should boast.

In this passage the word of God states that salvation is by grace through faith and then says 'that no one should boast.' There is no merit in faith. The merit is in the object of faith which in salvation is Jesus Christ.

Numerous times it is stated that man must believe, that man must have faith in Christ in order to be saved.

But these things have been stated many many times before, and it never sinks in to those who choose to ignore and reject it. This is why it is useless to keep going back and forth with those who willingly close their minds to the truth.

But replying to this keeps the thread at the top and gives more people a chance to see it and maybe a few will be helped by it.
 
Unread 05-08-2010, 06:25 PM
 
11,398 posts, read 5,226,530 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .sparrow. View Post
Mike, With all due respect brother... I don't want to read other's words. I want to read YOUR words. YOUR views. Not some link or website to another's thoughts and views. Just simply stated.
Now with that said, I did manage to get one sentence out of all of that:



So is that what YOU believe some of the beings that GOD brought into existence are destined for? ETERNAL (forever and ever and ever?) RUIN and USELESSNESS and TORMENT???

Truly. Is that your belief?
Those are my thoughts. My thoughts line up with the word of God. I wouldn't be posting them if they weren't.

Where did I say 'Some'? There will be 'Many.'
 
Unread 05-08-2010, 06:28 PM
 
3,741 posts, read 1,861,753 times
Reputation: 874
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Where did I say 'Some'? There will be 'Many.'

Ok, Mike... so these "many".. do you love them?
 
Unread 05-08-2010, 06:28 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
31,711 posts, read 9,719,178 times
Reputation: 3992
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
God forced us to be born sinners, but He won't force us into salvation?
God created Adam and Eve 'very good', which means perfect, immortal and without sin. God did not force them to sin, they did it to themselves, and you and I are paying the price for it. Yes, we die because of their sin, so we are being punished already. What makes you think God will lie about eternal punishement, when He didn't lie about the one we are experiencing right now?
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