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Old 05-08-2010, 07:42 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,725,637 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
God created Adam and Eve 'very good', which means perfect, immortal and without sin. God did not force them to sin, they did it to themselves, and you and I are paying the price for it. Yes, we die because of their sin, so we are being punished already. What makes you think God will lie about eternal punishement, when He didn't lie about the one we are experiencing right now?
Jesus paid the price for it.

"Eternal punishment" is a doctrine that results from misinterpretation of the scriptures, among other things.

 
Old 05-08-2010, 07:43 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,299,787 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
We were all born. We are all sinners. We didn't ask to born and God didn't give us a choice in the matter. God forced us to be born sinners.

I doubt there's a verse that says we were all born, but that's obvious. There are many that say we are all born sinners.
You must have missed the free will part then....God blessed man with a choice, and those choices brought on sin. So no, sin was not forced. It was chosen.
 
Old 05-08-2010, 07:49 PM
 
Location: SC Foothills
8,830 posts, read 9,771,861 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
To the contrary...

Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace you have been saved THROUGH FAITH; and that not of yourselfs, it is the gift of God; 9) not as a result of works, that no one should boast.

In this passage the word of God states that salvation is by grace through faith and then says 'that no one should boast.' There is no merit in faith. The merit is in the object of faith which in salvation is Jesus Christ.

Numerous times it is stated that man must believe, that man must have faith in Christ in order to be saved.

But these things have been stated many many times before, and it never sinks in to those who choose to ignore and reject it. This is why it is useless to keep going back and forth with those who willingly close their minds to the truth.

But replying to this keeps the thread at the top and gives more people a chance to see it and maybe a few will be helped by it.
I don't think anyone here is claiming otherwise Mike. All the Christian Universalists believe that you must have faith in Jesus Christ to be saved. It's what happens to those who did not have that faith that is in dispute. I've always appreciated your posts and although we're seeing things differently now, I don't see why this can't be discussed without mud slinging and name calling. I'm not saying you've done that I'm just saying that I have been very guilty in the past of sticking it to the universalists when all they were trying to do is show truth. It's biblical truth and I understand that truth now. I'm not a universalist, but I am a changed person. That can only be God and the Holy Spirit.

Not to say that I won't ever be a universalist, but I am still studying and it will be a long time until I understand everything fully and can debate it properly. Just know that the CU's are very loving and spirit-filled people....they are not of the devil. I accused them of everything under the sun and now I feel really horrible about that. Let's just be careful of what we say to one another. Love God and each other.
 
Old 05-08-2010, 08:00 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,651 posts, read 32,108,797 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
Jesus paid the price for it. .
So, we're not going to die? Women won't experience pain giving birth ? Dream on my universalist friend.
 
Old 05-08-2010, 08:52 PM
 
Location: God's Country
21,435 posts, read 29,610,172 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
You must have missed the free will part then....God blessed man with a choice, and those choices brought on sin. So no, sin was not forced. It was chosen.
Absolutely!!! But the devil has blinded many to this.
 
Old 05-08-2010, 08:54 PM
 
20,349 posts, read 15,726,172 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilene Wright View Post
I don't think anyone here is claiming otherwise Mike. All the Christian Universalists believe that you must have faith in Jesus Christ to be saved. It's what happens to those who did not have that faith that is in dispute. I've always appreciated your posts and although we're seeing things differently now, I don't see why this can't be discussed without mud slinging and name calling. I'm not saying you've done that I'm just saying that I have been very guilty in the past of sticking it to the universalists when all they were trying to do is show truth. It's biblical truth and I understand that truth now. I'm not a universalist, but I am a changed person. That can only be God and the Holy Spirit.

Not to say that I won't ever be a universalist, but I am still studying and it will be a long time until I understand everything fully and can debate it properly. Just know that the CU's are very loving and spirit-filled people....they are not of the devil. I accused them of everything under the sun and now I feel really horrible about that. Let's just be careful of what we say to one another. Love God and each other.
Those who claim that God will save everyone are in contradiction to everything that the Scriptures say. Against everything that Jesus said.

It is not God who led you to no longer believe what He has said in His word about the eternal nature of the punishment that awaits the unbeliever. You are but one of many who have veered off course from the truth and become a casualty in the spiritual warfare. Instead of facing the reality of something that makes you uncomfortable, you have chosen to reject it. That doesn't mean you have lost your salvation, once saved always saved. It just means you given yourself over to doctrines of demons.


And no they don't all believe that you must have faith in Christ in order to be saved. One of them just got through saying that believing that you must believe in Christ to be saved implies that you have something to boast about.
 
Old 05-08-2010, 09:06 PM
 
20,349 posts, read 15,726,172 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .sparrow. View Post
Ok, Mike... so these "many".. do you love them?
Irrelevent. Univeralists make appeals to the emotions instead of facing the facts. How I feel about those who are lost has no bearing on the reality of the situation. But I lose no sleep over those who reject the truth and will end up in hell. They are entirely responsible for their eternal destruction. I present the truth and that's all I can do.
 
Old 05-08-2010, 09:06 PM
 
37,652 posts, read 25,354,876 times
Reputation: 5865
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Those who claim that God will save everyone are in contradiction to everything that the Scriptures say. Against everything that Jesus said.

It is not God who led you to no longer believe what He has said in His word about the eternal nature of the punishment that awaits the unbeliever. You are but one of many who have veered off course from the truth and become a casualty in the spiritual warfare. Instead of facing the reality of something that makes you uncomfortable, you have chosen to reject it. That doesn't mean you have lost your salvation, once saved always saved. It just means you given yourself over to doctrines of demons.
We are entirely focused on Jesus and what He said and did as our example . . . "love God and each other" . . . NOT DOCTRINE. The only one selling "doctrines and precepts of men" here is You Mike. You might want to check more closely into those teachers of yours and the Spirit they follow. Just saying.
 
Old 05-08-2010, 09:07 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,725,637 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
You must have missed the free will part then....God blessed man with a choice, and those choices brought on sin. So no, sin was not forced. It was chosen.
It was not chosen by me or you. Maybe it was "chosen" by Adam and Eve, or maybe it was God's plan all along. However, sin was definitely forced on every single person who was born after that.
 
Old 05-08-2010, 09:08 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,725,637 times
Reputation: 263
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
So, we're not going to die? Women won't experience pain giving birth ? Dream on my universalist friend.
Do you not understand that Christ ransomed all?
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