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Old 05-11-2010, 05:31 PM
 
20,335 posts, read 15,721,845 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daddythreepointoh View Post
First point--the Bible is NOT "crystal clear" in it's message that hell is the eternal destination for those who die without Christ. Bad translations are crystal clear to those who don't bother to dig deeper into the original languages of the Bible themselves.
To the contrary. It is the from the original lanquages of the Bible that we know of the existence of the lake of fire. Translations, whether good or bad, have nothing to do with it. This is a typical tactic of the universalist for the purpose of discrediting the Bible's teachings on hell.

And you do a disservice to the many fine theologians and Greek and Hebrew scholars who are quite expert in their knowledge of the original lanquages. For instance, just to name one, Dr. Lewis Sperry Chafer who founded and was president of Dallas Theological Seminary and was an expert in Greek. There are many many experts in the original lanquages who will tell you that eternal punishment in the lake of fire is Biblical.

The word of God is crystal clear in its teachings of hell. Or lake of fire if you prefer. Disputes over the name people choose to call it by have no bearing on the reality of its existence.


Quote:

Second point--You are stating that everyone KNOWS that God and hell are real because of the Bible. That is incorrect. You have to BELIEVE with FAITH, which is incomprehensible to the unbeliever. How are printed words on a page ABSOLUTE proof of God or hell? PROOF would be seeing, touching, experiencing.
Actually, I said that the poster was mistaken in saying that no one knows that God exists. Those who have believed in Christ for salvation certainly know that God exists. However, everyone knows in their heart that God exists, for the very heavens declare the glory of God. Psalms 19:1-6.
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Old 05-11-2010, 05:33 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,409,656 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilene Wright View Post

No, it's not. Nowhere in these scriptures does it say "eternal" anything. You see that?

Where does it say that it is "hell" or that it is eternal? This is just the "refining fire".....God's consuming refining fire that all must go through who did not know Jesus. Spiritual, not literal.

Again, no mention of hell or eternity.....depart to where? Not hell, obviously. Harkens back? That's rich how you can connect something to nothing.

You're absolutely right, but what has that got to do with hell?

Again, no mention of an eternal hell. This is referring to God's spiritual refining fire.


You have definitely ADDED the "eternal" part to those scriptures......it never says that. Only the devil will go away into punishment, and whether that is eternal is still not made clear. Do some research on "eternal" and it's meaning in the Greek.


NO it does not!! Come on Mike, can you not see what you are doing here?

AGAIN, no mention of anything being "hell" or eternal. This is getting old.

Exactly!! You said it yourself....no mention of "outer darkness" or "hell" or "eternal". And the passages that do tell of outer darkness are not referrring to "hell"......you're making that up.


No, they are not Mike. How do you get that these are referring to hell or the lake of fire? Can you not see how way off base you really are? Amazing. I didn't see it either for many years, so I'll give you a break. You'll see it eventually, God willing.
God Willing.
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Old 05-11-2010, 05:39 PM
 
20,335 posts, read 15,721,845 times
Reputation: 7482
[quote=Ilene Wright;14133990]
Quote:

No, it's not. Nowhere in these scriptures does it say "eternal" anything. You see that?

Where does it say that it is "hell" or that it is eternal? This is just the "refining fire".....God's consuming refining fire that all must go through who did not know Jesus. Spiritual, not literal.

Again, no mention of hell or eternity.....depart to where? Not hell, obviously. Harkens back? That's rich how you can connect something to nothing.

You're absolutely right, but what has that got to do with hell?

Again, no mention of an eternal hell. This is referring to God's spiritual refining fire.


You have definitely ADDED the "eternal" part to those scriptures......it never says that. Only the devil will go away into punishment, and whether that is eternal is still not made clear. Do some research on "eternal" and it's meaning in the Greek.


NO it does not!! Come on Mike, can you not see what you are doing here?

AGAIN, no mention of anything being "hell" or eternal. This is getting old.

Exactly!! You said it yourself....no mention of "outer darkness" or "hell" or "eternal". And the passages that do tell of outer darkness are not referrring to "hell"......you're making that up.


No, they are not Mike. How do you get that these are referring to hell or the lake of fire? Can you not see how way off base you really are? Amazing. I didn't see it either for many years, so I'll give you a break. You'll see it eventually, God willing.
It is expected that those reading will put together all the passages provided and make a connection to see what has been said. Those who have rejected the truth will not read with a desire to learn but merely to ridicule and so will learn nothing. So be it.
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Old 05-11-2010, 05:40 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,694,716 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
This is a typical tactic of the universalist for the purpose of discrediting the Bible's teachings on hell.
The original language discredits the teaching all on it's own.
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Old 05-11-2010, 05:43 PM
 
20,335 posts, read 15,721,845 times
Reputation: 7482
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
Jesus never warned about hell, he in fact never even uttered the word hell, something which you refuse to even admit ... He warned the Israelites about the judgment coming on them using the analogy of Gehenna. The word Gehenna is found 12 times throughout the scriptures ... Only in the gospels and in James.

The purpose for the judgment of Gehenna was in order that God might have mercy on all through the rejection of Christ by Israel and his death and resurrection.

Only you cannot see that, you are as blind to the real purpose of God in Christ as the Israelites were when they rejected him because he didn't fit their idea of who the Christ(messiah) would and or should be.

The truth is you are not serving Christ, you are serving a bastardized deformation of who Christ truly is. You are serving a twisted maligned interpretation of who Christ is. You are serving hate and fear and death and Satan(the adversary of humanity), just as the pharisees did in the time of Christ, and you just cant see it. You cant see the forest for the tress and so you preach that everlasting evil and death will have victory over most of creation.

Death and evil and sin will in fact be swallowed up in victory, and will be no more. But you just cant see it. Though your ET camp is already loosing ground, and will soon be a thing of the past. Even you will eventually join us in praising God and singing the name of Christ with all of creation for his love and mercy for all in the end. Even you will finally pray for mercy in shame for your perpetrating the lie of the everlasting victory of sin and death and hell(grave) and all the works of the devil.

Its just a matter of time ...




Selah ...
Jesus didn't speak English. In English many people choose simply to call it hell. Disputes over the name that some use have no bearing on the reality of its existence.

Jesus spoke more of hell than anyone else.
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Old 05-11-2010, 05:46 PM
 
20,335 posts, read 15,721,845 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
The Myth of Hell Perpetuates

What has happened over time is that many terms or phrases have become euphemisms or synonyms for "hell" AKA a place of eternal torment in fire. Even the word "hell" has become a euphemism, because originally the word "hell" simply meant "to cover" or "to conceal".

Here are some phrases that people think mean "hell"
- eternal fire
- unquenchable fire
- furnace of fire
- outer darkness
- gnashing of teeth
- judgment
- condemned
- die in sin
- death
- cast out
- not inherit the Kingdom
- wide path to destruction

But when you go and look at how scripture uses each of these phrases, you will find that they don't say anything about place of eternal torment. It is simply assumed.

That is the problem and confusion that the doctrine of "hell" creates. People assume the scripture is talking about "hell" because it might use one of the above catch phrases, but if you look at context and meaning you will see scripture is not talking about a place of eternal torment at all.
See post #87.
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Old 05-11-2010, 05:59 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,694,716 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
.

Jesus spoke more of hell than anyone else.

What Jesus did was admonish the religious who believed that the outward appearance of their behavior was a sign of their righteousness.
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Old 05-11-2010, 06:11 PM
 
20,335 posts, read 15,721,845 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero 7 View Post
This slays me as well. The gospel , the 'good news' according to ET'ers. What exactly is it? The vast majority of mankind burns forever without any chance of escape. THIS is good news?

Satan gets 85% of mankind, Christ gets 15%. But to ET'ers, this is still victory. Sheesh. I myself believed this lie for 30 years.

To those who still believe in ET, ask yourself why it seems your not growing in the Spirit and where your joy in the Lord is.

You'll have neither as long as you still believe in this satanic garbage. Impossible. If you say otherwise, I say your lying or in denial. Do you think God will bless you when you go your merry way knowing (in your mind) that the vast majority are going to an eternal cookout, and they're on the menu?
To the contrary. The good news is that God provided a way to escape the eternal destruction of the lake of fire. Or hell. Same place.

And the good news is this.

John 15:3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4) and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures.

Why? Because...

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son. That whosoever believes in Him, should not perish, but have eternal life.

The bad news on the other hand is this...

John 3:36 ...he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.

John 8:24 ...for unless you believe that I am, you shall die in your sins.

The faithful servant of God will warn of what awaits those who die without Christ.
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Old 05-11-2010, 06:31 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,213,393 times
Reputation: 892
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Jesus didn't speak English. In English many people choose simply to call it hell. Disputes over the name that some use have no bearing on the reality of its existence.

Jesus spoke more of hell than anyone else.
Jesus spoke more about Gehenna than anyone else ... That is true. As a matter of fact none of the apostles even mention Gehenna except for James who uses it as an allegory of the tongue. If Gehenna were such a real place where most people are going to spend eternity after death then why didn't any of the apostles refer to it as such a place? Or even refer to it at all?

The concept of Gehenna as a place of everlasting torment is completely foreign to the new and old testaments alike. Gehenna was a trash pit where the bodies of criminals where disposed of after they died, and that is how Christ speaks of it when he is warning ISRAEL of the then coming judgments which already took place in 70 AD. It has nothing to do with everlasting punishment. Aionios kolasis is the correction(judgment) of the age, which took place in 70 AD.

What traditional Christianity has done after Rome took control of the religion was to connect the words and or concepts of Sheol/Hades, Gehenna, tartaroo, as the same thing. Especially after the words were translated with the one old English/Germanic term Hell. It is obvious theological subterfuge for the purpose of confusing the sound pattern of words, which were the original words of the scriptures, in order to deceive the masses into fearing such a preposterous and diabolical false doctrine.

Add to that the mistranslation of the words "aion/aionion/aionios" as "eternal/everlasting/for ever and ever", among various other mistranslations, and the doctrine of ET seems to be scriptural to the uneducated profane masses. But when one comes to realize the clever deception in these translations and the theology which they are explained with, the whole doctrine of ET false apart.

That is why the doctrine of ET is failing around the world as people have greater access to more information concerning the original manuscripts of the scriptures, and more information concerning the original gospel taught and believed by the majority of early Christians(especially throughout the east) during the first four centuries CE.



Selah ...

Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 05-11-2010 at 06:43 PM..
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Old 05-11-2010, 06:34 PM
 
Location: SC Foothills
8,830 posts, read 9,770,263 times
Reputation: 58199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post

It is expected that those reading will put together all the passages provided and make a connection to see what has been said. Those who have rejected the truth will not read with a desire to learn but merely to ridicule and so will learn nothing. So be it.
Your post was trying to prove something that just simply is not true. "it is expected", you say? You may expect people to see through that, that's what you may expect.
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