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Old 05-12-2010, 07:05 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,380,473 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Yes it is. The moment will come when all of creation will have acknowledged that Jesus is Lord. Those who placed their faith in Christ for salvation will of course, and already do willingly and joyfully acknowledge that Christ is Lord. But there will come a time when all of creation will be forced to the realization that Jesus is Lord. When His enemies are standing before Christ at the Great White throne judgment and He is sitting on that throne in all His glory and holiness and power, and heaven and earth have fled away from His presence (Rev 20:11), all who rejected Him as Savior will know finally that Jesus Christ is Lord and will acknowledge it on bended knee, and in fear, just before they are thrown into the lake of fire forever. The angelic conflict will have run its course. God's objectives in implimenting human history will have been achieved. Satan's sentence to the lake of fire, given before human history began, will finally be carried out, and everything will have been wrapped up. All who have chosen to have an eternal relationship with Christ will have entered into the fullness of that relationship, and all who have rejected Christ will have been consigned to their eternal habitation, forever separated from God, away from the glory of His power.


The Angelic conflict, the invisible spiritual warfare...

www.city-data.com/forum/christianty/885157-angelic-conflict-spiritual-warfare.html
God says He is RECONCILING things in HEAVEN and EARTH!

I don't know how exactly He is bringing this about, but I wouldn't put it past Him. If He says He is going to do something, I'm inclined to believe it.
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Old 05-12-2010, 07:50 PM
 
3,448 posts, read 2,581,387 times
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Lets suppose there is a "lake of fire" ( which I do not believe)
With all scripture and all walks of life there is no one who is exempt from
perfection. Mistakes of interpretation or exposure will place all in hell.

Here's the problem, lets say someone lived a good life and interpreted the scriptures incorrectly, even grossly incorrectly.
For example , one may assert that Loving ones neighbor has nothing to do with salvation.
Because everybody knows this is false , we can easily condemn this individual to "the lake of fires"
Even if the individual understands this to be wrong at a later date with
examination of thought, its too late as the belief was in occurance and judgement is as its claimed punitive.
In short the concept of the lake of fires is ridiculous and all one must do is... imagine interviewing young children or mature seniors on the matter.
These two groups bring innocence for the most part to clarity and are here to guide our thinking.
I asked some young girls at lunch break at McDonald's today(edited, I know them quite well) what they thought of a grown up believing in this lake of fires.
They shrieked and railroaded the negativity , as the subject naturally serves, as its own ..."propaganda" Thus deserving of avoidance. Like going over and over why something is illicit, its wrong.(this is why) Period.

The lake of fires was practiced in ancient days through ...burning people at the steak and other gruesome self ordained adaptations of ..."hell for sinners"
Would it not be for growth in social order we would have same.

Therefore ..ATTENTION believers in the lake of fires.


Do you really believe in this...?
Why are you not exercising Gods plan ?
Why are you not burning the guilty you easily judge in the administration of Gods handy work...?
Are you cowards ? or afraid of self existence ?
Is this not Gods work for you to carry out ?

"How do you discern in your judging others what is Gods work for you to do and what is not?"

Because you pick and choose what is HANDY for your insecure minds and fully know this lake of fire is a tool for attention and emotional problems

Last edited by stargazzer; 05-12-2010 at 08:21 PM..
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Old 05-12-2010, 09:39 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,720,996 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CantWait2Leave View Post
LOL Betsey. I read Bright Hope For Tomorrow wrote this instead of Betsey Lane (I'm so out of it, I need coffee!) and I was thinking, "What? Why would she write this? This doesn't make any sense!" Now it makes sense.
You're right. I wouldn't!
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Old 05-13-2010, 01:36 AM
 
20,299 posts, read 15,642,764 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
God says He is RECONCILING things in HEAVEN and EARTH!

I don't know how exactly He is bringing this about, but I wouldn't put it past Him. If He says He is going to do something, I'm inclined to believe it.
Colossians 1:19 For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fulness to dwell in Him, 20) and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His Cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven. 21) yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach.

Universal reconciliation is not the salvation of all men. The two don't equate because of the issue of man's volition being involved.

Reconciliation means to make at peace.

The work of Christ on the Cross is threefold in its direction. Redemption is sinward (man is redeemed from sin), and propitiation is Godward (God the Father is satisfied with the work of Christ on the Cross). Reconciliation is manward. (2 Cor 5:18,19; Eph 2:16; Col 1:20).

Because of sin, man is the enemy of God. (Rom 5:10; Col 1:21).

However, because of the sum total of the various facets of the work that Christ accomplished on the Cross, man has been made at peace with God-Reconciliation. (Eph 2:14-16; Col 1:20).

The prophecy of reconciliation is in (Isaiah 57:19).

Reconciliation is the result of the following:

1) Sin is removed by (a) Unlimited Atonement: (2 Cor 5:14, 15, 19; 1 Tim. 2:6; 4:10; Tit. 2:11; Heb. 2:9; 2 Pet 2:1; 1 John 2:2). (b) Redemption: (Gal. 3:13; Eph. 1:7; Col. 1:14; 1 Pet. 1:18,19).

2) The Penalty of sin is removed by Expiation: ( Psa. 22;1-6; Col. 2:14).

3) Regeneration- being born again: (John 3:1-18; Tit. 3:5; 1 Pet. 1:23). Occurs at the moment of faith in Christ.

4) The removal of the problem of man's relative righteousness or human good by the Imputation of God's very own absolute righteousness: (Rom. 3:22; 9:30-10:10; 2 Cor. 5:21; Phil. 3:9; Heb. 10:14). Occurs at the moment of faith in Christ.

5) Justification-being pronounced justified by God as a result of the imputation of His righteousness: (Rom. 4:1-5; 4:25; 5:1; 8:29,30; Gal. 2:16; Tit. 3:7). Occurs at the moment of faith in Christ.

6) God's perfect character satisfied or propitiated: (Rom. 3:22-26; 1 John 2:1,2).

7) Man's position in Adam is removed by Positional Sanctification (1 Cor. 15:22; 2 Cor. 5:17; Eph. 1:3-6). Occurs at the moment of faith in Christ.

As a result of reconciliation, the barrier of sin is removed. But now the issue becomes what think you of Christ. Man must make a decision to step over the line where the barrier of sin used to be by believing in Christ for salvation.

Man must receive the reconciliation that was accomplished at the Cross. The imputation of God's perfect righteousness and being pronounced justified by God which are involved in reconciliation don't occur until a person believes in Christ. That is why Paul made the appeal that he made in 2 Cor. 5:20. Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were entreating through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.

Romans 3:22 says, even the righteousness of God through faith in Christ Jesus for all those who believe.

The work that Christ accomplished on the Cross takes man out of the red, off the debit side of the ledger, but in order to be placed on the credit side of the ledger, in the black, man must make a decision to believe in Christ so that God's rigteousness can be imputed to him and thereby, be declared by God to be justified. Romans 3:26 for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

See link...

Justification

Therefore it is through faith in Christ that man receives the reconciliation which was accomplished at the Cross. Eternal salvation is applied to the person who places his trust in Jesus Christ. On the other hand, the work of Christ on the Cross is not applied to, is not appropriated by, the person who does not believe in Christ, and that person will die in his sins. (John 8:24).



John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life.

So that's what's involved in reconcilition. As for the phrase 'whether things on earth of things in heaven,' see the following link. Scroll down to verse 20.


Colossians 1 Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary
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Old 05-13-2010, 07:04 AM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,682,496 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Yes it is.

Someone who bows and confesses to the Glory of God the Father is not doomed.
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Old 05-13-2010, 09:01 AM
 
20,299 posts, read 15,642,764 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
Someone who bows and confesses to the Glory of God the Father is not doomed.
To the contrary. The acknowlegement of the Lordship of Jesus Christ by His defeated enemies is only fitting. They had lived their entire lives in denial of the God of the universe. But now at the Great White Throne judgment when face to face with the infinite majesty of His glory they can't but acknowledge that indeed, Christ is Lord. But that doesn't save them. The opportunity for salvation passed away with their departure from their earthly lives.

Phil 2:10,11 that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE SHOULD BOW, of those who are in heaven, and on earth, and under the earth, 11) and that every tongue should confess tha Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.


The Jamison-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary states it in the following manner...

under the earth-the dead; among whom he was numbered once (Ro 14:9, 11; Eph 4:9, 10; Re 5:13). The demons and the lost may be included indirectly, as even they give homage, though one of fear, not love, to Jesus (Mr 3:11; Lu 8:31; Jas 2:19, see on [2389]Php 2:11).

Philippians 2 Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary


Mark 3:11 And whenever the unclean spirits beheld Him, they would fall down before Him and cry out, saying, ''You are the Son of God!''

Luke 8:31 And they were entreating Him not to command them to depart into the abyss.

James 2:19 You believe that God is one, You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.

Even during His First Advent, demons encountering Jesus, fell down before Him and recognized His authority.

Matthew 8:29 And behold, they (demons who were possessing two men) cried out, saying, ''What do we have to do with You, Son of God? Have You come here to torment us before the time?''

The demons know who Jesus Christ is, and they know that the time is coming when they will be thrown into the lake of fire and tormented forever.

And if even the fallen angels recognize even now that Jesus Christ is Lord and must give Him His due acknowledgement, how much more so will come the time when unbelieving mankind must in like manner give all due recognition to the Lordship of the King of kings and Lord of lords. right before the time of THEIR torment.

Matthew 25:41 ''Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels. 46) ''And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.'' (Matthew 25:41 is a different judgment than the Great White Throne, but the results are the same).
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Old 05-13-2010, 09:06 AM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,682,496 times
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I appreciate your devotion to a bible commentary Mike, but my beliefs are not bound to someone elses perception of God and their case building to that effect.

The character of God simply will not act like a human being who is hauty and proud and demand that someone acknowledge his greatness only to damn them after doing that.
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Old 05-13-2010, 09:13 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,386,559 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
To the contrary. The acknowlegement of the Lordship of Jesus Christ by His defeated enemies is only fitting. They had lived their entire lives in denial of the God of the universe. But now at the Great White Throne judgment when face to face with the infinite majesty of His glory they can't but acknowledge that indeed, Christ is Lord. But that doesn't save them. The opportunity for salvation passed away with their departure from their earthly lives.

Phil 2:10,11 that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE SHOULD BOW, of those who are in heaven, and on earth, and under the earth, 11) and that every tongue should confess tha Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Isn't this a reference to Isaiah?

Isaiah 45:23 "I have sworn by Myself, The word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness And will not turn back, That to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance.

Yet here it says his WORD WILL NOT TURN BACK so that all bow and confess.. So it is his WORD that causes all to bow not his arrogance.

This is not a prediction of confessing under duress but willingly because of the Word...
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Old 05-13-2010, 09:22 AM
 
20,299 posts, read 15,642,764 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
I appreciate your devotion to a bible commentary Mike, but my beliefs are not bound to someone elses perception of God and their case building to that effect.

The character of God simply will not act like a human being who is hauty and proud and demand that someone acknowledge his greatness only to damn them after doing that.
The commentary merely points to scripture which shows that demons even now acknowledge the Lordship, the authority of Christ and know for a certainty of their approaching incarceration in the lake of fire.

You have read, but you have not understood. Against all reason, those who hold to the unscriptural view of universal salvation, simply will not accept the clear teaching of the word of God on the matter. And yet, God's word does not return to Him void.
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Old 05-13-2010, 09:25 AM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,404,833 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Isn't this a reference to Isaiah?

Isaiah 45:23 "I have sworn by Myself, The word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness And will not turn back, That to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance.

Yet here it says his WORD WILL NOT TURN BACK so that all bow and confess.. So it is his WORD that causes all to bow not his arrogance.

This is not a prediction of confessing under duress but willingly because of the Word...
The Lord does not want a false confession as seen here :

Mat 15:8" 'These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.

The confession in Isaiah 45:23 is a true confession. In verse 24 we see that people are ashamed; this is a sign of true repentance. Every creature praises His name and sings in joy as shown in Rev 5:13.
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