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Old 05-13-2010, 10:31 AM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,697,919 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
The commentary merely points to scripture which shows that demons even now acknowledge the Lordship, the authority of Christ and know for a certainty of their approaching incarceration in the lake of fire.

You have read, but you have not understood. Against all reason, those who hold to the unscriptural view of universal salvation, simply will not accept the clear teaching of the word of God on the matter. And yet, God's word does not return to Him void.

I have read and I understand fine, I disagree, so your point about me is a greater picture for me to see of you than of myself.


I have said nothing of demons so if you would like to discuss them, that is fine.

To clarify I am referring to mankind.
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Old 05-13-2010, 10:40 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,415,178 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
The commentary merely points to scripture which shows that demons even now acknowledge the Lordship, the authority of Christ and know for a certainty of their approaching incarceration in the lake of fire.

You have read, but you have not understood. Against all reason, those who hold to the unscriptural view of universal salvation, simply will not accept the clear teaching of the word of God on the matter. And yet, God's word does not return to Him void.
James 2:19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that--and shudder.

It is interesting that the word 'demon' is not found in the OT... why do you suppose that is? The greek word here is daimonion and actually refers to a god or deity, not really our modern concept of demon.

The same word is used here:
1 Cor. 10:20 No, but the sacrifices of pagans are offered to demons, not to God, and I do not want you to be participants with demons.

So we can see that in the greek the demon was another word for false god.

Why would a 'false god' believe and tremble?

Do you think perhaps you are misreading what the intention of James 2:19 is and the meaning of daimonion?
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Old 05-13-2010, 10:42 AM
 
Location: southern california
55,237 posts, read 72,646,402 times
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it says avoid the gateway to hell--- booze dope and violence.
work hard be kind
complex message huh?
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Old 05-13-2010, 12:10 PM
 
20,353 posts, read 15,730,497 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Isn't this a reference to Isaiah?

Isaiah 45:23 "I have sworn by Myself, The word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness And will not turn back, That to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance.

Yet here it says his WORD WILL NOT TURN BACK so that all bow and confess.. So it is his WORD that causes all to bow not his arrogance.

This is not a prediction of confessing under duress but willingly because of the Word...
To the contrary. Phil 2:10,11 does indeed point back to Isaiah 45:23, as does Romans 14:11 and states that those who are under the earth will acknowledge the Lordship of Jesus.

Under the earth refers to the fallen angels and unredeemed dead who are awaiting final judgment and eternal punishment.

Here is what Isaiah 45:23,24 says...''I have sworn by Myself, The word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness And will not turn back, That to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear. 24) They will say to Me, 'Only in the LORD are righteousness and strength.' Men will come to Him, And all who were angry at Him shall be put to shame.

The Lord has sworn that every knee WILL bow and every tongue WILL swear. Those who love Christ shall do so willingly. Those who have hated Christ will be compelled to do so.

Charles Spurgeon wrote...

Now is he higher then the highest. Now every one must confess his divinity. With shame and terror, his adversaries shall bow before him. With delight and humble adoration, his friends shall own him Lord of all: 'that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.'


J. Dwight Pentecost writes this...

Here is an amazing revelation that, because of the exaltation of Jesus Christ, even the fallen unredeemed angels, and unredeemed, sinful men, who are under eternal condemnation will have to bow before the display of the majesty of the Son of God and acknowledge that the One they despised and rejected is in truth the exalted Son of God. While in their state of separation and condemnation they cannot believe to the salvation of their souls, throughout the unending ages of eternity, even hell itself will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord and acknowledge that the despised and rejected One whom they delighted to put to the cross was in truth the absolute Sovereign of the universe. And God will not leave one single created intelligent being who does not admit to the superior worth of Jesus Christ. Things in heaven, things in earth, and things under the earth will bow the knee in reverence and respect and awe at the majesty of the exalted Person of Jesus Christ.

At the following site is more information...

Philippians 2:8-11 Commentary



It has been shown that even the fallen angels who are fully aware of their inpending incarceration in the lake of fire, even now give acknowledgement to the authority-the Lordship of Christ. And so shall it also be with unsaved humanity.
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Old 05-13-2010, 12:15 PM
 
20,353 posts, read 15,730,497 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
James 2:19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that--and shudder.

It is interesting that the word 'demon' is not found in the OT... why do you suppose that is? The greek word here is daimonion and actually refers to a god or deity, not really our modern concept of demon.

The same word is used here:
1 Cor. 10:20 No, but the sacrifices of pagans are offered to demons, not to God, and I do not want you to be participants with demons.

So we can see that in the greek the demon was another word for false god.

Why would a 'false god' believe and tremble?

Do you think perhaps you are misreading what the intention of James 2:19 is and the meaning of daimonion?
No. The problem you are having in understanding the issue is that you do not believe in Heaven or hell, or in Satan or demons, or in angels in general as real and actual beings, and so you reject out of hand any reference to any of these things.

For Old Testament references to demonism refer to Lev 17:7; Lev 20:27; Deut 32:17; 2 Chron 11:15; Psa 106:37; Isa 2:6, etc...

Demonism is well documented in the Old Testament.

Last edited by Mike555; 05-13-2010 at 12:37 PM..
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Old 05-13-2010, 12:27 PM
 
3,448 posts, read 2,593,965 times
Reputation: 478
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
To the contrary. Phil 2:10,11 does indeed point back to Isaiah 45:23, as does Romans 14:11 and states that those who are under the earth will acknowledge the Lordship of Jesus.

Under the earth refers to the fallen angels and unredeemed dead who are awaiting final judgment and eternal punishment.

Here is what Isaiah 45:23,24 says...''I have sworn by Myself, The word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness And will not turn back, That to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear. 24) They will say to Me, 'Only in the LORD are righteousness and strength.' Men will come to Him, And all who were angry at Him shall be put to shame.

The Lord has sworn that every knee WILL bow and every tongue WILL swear. Those who love Christ shall do so willingly. Those who have hated Christ will be compelled to do so.

Charles Spurgeon wrote...

Now is he higher then the highest. Now every one must confess his divinity. With shame and terror, his adversaries shall bow before him. With delight and humble adoration, his friends shall own him Lord of all: 'that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.'


J. Dwight Pentecost writes this...

Here is an amazing revelation that, because of the exaltation of Jesus Christ, even the fallen unredeemed angels, and unredeemed, sinful men, who are under eternal condemnation will have to bow before the display of the majesty of the Son of God and acknowledge that the One they despised and rejected is in truth the exalted Son of God. While in their state of separation and condemnation they cannot believe to the salvation of their souls, throughout the unending ages of eternity, even hell itself will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord and acknowledge that the despised and rejected One whom they delighted to put to the cross was in truth the absolute Sovereign of the universe. And God will not leave one single created intelligent being who does not admit to the superior worth of Jesus Christ. Things in heaven, things in earth, and things under the earth will bow the knee in reverence and respect and awe at the majesty of the exalted Person of Jesus Christ.

At the following site is more information...

Philippians 2:8-11 Commentary



It has been shown that even the fallen angels who are fully aware of their inpending incarceration in the lake of fire, even now give acknowledgement to the authority-the Lordship of Christ. And so shall it also be with unsaved humanity.
Stargazzer says:
Sometimes I do volunteer work for people who don't have your, (lets definately introduce the word)...OPINION,
People who you think are going to the lake of fires.
Are you going to dismiss this charity as a mortal detachment from God and Jesus as I am helping what you believe are friends of the devil or something? Future hell people ?
Come on Mike555 give us a light at the end of this nightmare and open the hose on that freaky lake of fire !
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Old 05-13-2010, 12:28 PM
 
968 posts, read 720,277 times
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Mike, I have a quick question for you. If somone wrongs me over and over, why should I forgive them? Why should I forgive them when the example God has given us is not to forgive. He's sending billions into the eternal lake of fire. Too late you say? That doesn't cut it.

Your philosophy on salvation...

Jesus: "Just trust me and you will be saved, however, if you don't trust me enough, your part is in the Lake of Fire"

I'm sorry but there are a bazillion inconsistencies in the teaching of ET but your heart is hardened and your mind is made up.

Like I said on a previous post, you need a Saul on his way to damascus event. For your sake , hope it happens now instead of later.
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Old 05-13-2010, 12:55 PM
 
20,353 posts, read 15,730,497 times
Reputation: 7497
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero 7 View Post
Mike, I have a quick question for you. If somone wrongs me over and over, why should I forgive them? Why should I forgive them when the example God has given us is not to forgive. He's sending billions into the eternal lake of fire. Too late you say? That doesn't cut it.

Your philosophy on salvation...

Jesus: "Just trust me and you will be saved, however, if you don't trust me enough, your part is in the Lake of Fire"

I'm sorry but there are a bazillion inconsistencies in the teaching of ET but your heart is hardened and your mind is made up.

Like I said on a previous post, you need a Saul on his way to damascus event. For your sake , hope it happens now instead of later.
Hebrews 9:27 And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once, and then comes judgment.

It is not by the philosophies of man or by the imaginations of his heart, but rather it is by the revealed word of God that we know of the existence of hell and the eternal duration of the sufferings and torments of those who will inhabit it.

Here is what Paul wrote concerning those who do not know God...

2 Thess 1:6 For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, 7) and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire, 8) dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9) And these will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10) when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day, and to be marveled at among all who have believed--for our testimony to you was believed.
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Old 05-13-2010, 01:25 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,725,795 times
Reputation: 263
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
2 Thess 1:6 For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, 7) and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire, 8) dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9) And these will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10) when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day, and to be marveled at among all who have believed--for our testimony to you was believed.
See part in red. Isn't it amazing that once again, the Lord is the one in the fire? Thanks for posting this, Mike. I had never noticed that before.
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Old 05-13-2010, 01:46 PM
 
20,353 posts, read 15,730,497 times
Reputation: 7497
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
I have read and I understand fine, I disagree, so your point about me is a greater picture for me to see of you than of myself.


I have said nothing of demons so if you would like to discuss them, that is fine.

To clarify I am referring to mankind.
I brought up the demons to show that they who are included among those who will acknowledge that Christ is Lord, in fact already do recognize His authority. And they, as well as unbelieving humanity are going to be cast into the eternal fire.
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