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Old 05-13-2010, 01:03 PM
 
20,299 posts, read 15,647,071 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Hebrews 9:27 And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once, and then comes judgment.

It is not by the philosophies of man or by the imaginations of his heart, but rather it is by the revealed word of God that we know of the existence of hell and the eternal duration of the sufferings and torments of those who will inhabit it.

Here is what Paul wrote concerning those who do not know God...

2 Thess 1:6 For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, 7) and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
See part in red. Isn't it amazing that once again, the Lord is the one in the fire? Thanks for posting this, Mike. I had never noticed that before.

And here is what the above poster surely could not help but notice, yet willingly chooses to ignore and reject...

8) dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9) And these will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10) when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day, and to be marveled at among all who have believed--for our testimony to you was believed.

As the above poster shows, Universalists have no interest in the truth. Rather, they simply reject every statement of truth that declares the eternal sufferings of those who reject Christ.

No reasonable person could fail to understand that the duration of the punishment in hell is eternal in nature. But Universalism attracts people who can't and won't face reality.
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Old 05-13-2010, 01:16 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,380,989 times
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Some people on this forum, and I won't name names, need a better understanding of what reconcile means.

I will give you a couple of definitions.

1.To reestablish a close relationship between.2. To settle or resolve.

When God says He is reconciling ALL things in HEAVEN and EARTH, HE WILL DO WHAT HE SAYS!

Again, what all in the universe needs reconciling?????

When you finally figure it out,
EVERY VERSE IN THE BIBLE WILL MAKE SENSE!
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Old 05-13-2010, 01:30 PM
 
20,299 posts, read 15,647,071 times
Reputation: 7409
Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
Some people on this forum, and I won't name names, need a better understanding of what reconcile means.

I will give you a couple of definitions.

1.To reestablish a close relationship between.2. To settle or resolve.

When God says He is reconciling ALL things in HEAVEN and EARTH, HE WILL DO WHAT HE SAYS!

Again, what all in the universe needs reconciling?????

When you finally figure it out,
EVERY VERSE IN THE BIBLE WILL MAKE SENSE!

The following is what the above poster has rejected in favor of what has been posted above. Below is a theologically correct presentation of the doctrine of Reconciliation. It was posted for the purpose of making the issue of salvation, and what is involved in salvation, clear. That effort was wasted.

Colossians 1:19 For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fulness to dwell in Him, 20) and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His Cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven. 21) yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach.

Universal reconciliation is not the salvation of all men. The two don't equate because of the issue of man's volition being involved.

Reconciliation means to make at peace.

The work of Christ on the Cross is threefold in its direction. Redemption is sinward (man is redeemed from sin), and propitiation is Godward (God the Father is satisfied with the work of Christ on the Cross). Reconciliation is manward. (2 Cor 5:18,19; Eph 2:16; Col 1:20).

Because of sin, man is the enemy of God. (Rom 5:10; Col 1:21).

However, because of the sum total of the various facets of the work that Christ accomplished on the Cross, man has been made at peace with God-Reconciliation. (Eph 2:14-16; Col 1:20).

The prophecy of reconciliation is in (Isaiah 57:19).

Reconciliation is the result of the following:

1) Sin is removed by (a) Unlimited Atonement: (2 Cor 5:14, 15, 19; 1 Tim. 2:6; 4:10; Tit. 2:11; Heb. 2:9; 2 Pet 2:1; 1 John 2:2). (b) Redemption: (Gal. 3:13; Eph. 1:7; Col. 1:14; 1 Pet. 1:18,19).

2) The Penalty of sin is removed by Expiation: ( Psa. 22;1-6; Col. 2:14).

3) Regeneration- being born again: (John 3:1-18; Tit. 3:5; 1 Pet. 1:23). Occurs at the moment of faith in Christ.

4) The removal of the problem of man's relative righteousness or human good by the Imputation of God's very own absolute righteousness: (Rom. 3:22; 9:30-10:10; 2 Cor. 5:21; Phil. 3:9; Heb. 10:14). Occurs at the moment of faith in Christ.

5) Justification-being pronounced justified by God as a result of the imputation of His righteousness: (Rom. 4:1-5; 4:25; 5:1; 8:29,30; Gal. 2:16; Tit. 3:7). Occurs at the moment of faith in Christ.

6) God's perfect character satisfied or propitiated: (Rom. 3:22-26; 1 John 2:1,2).

7) Man's position in Adam is removed by Positional Sanctification (1 Cor. 15:22; 2 Cor. 5:17; Eph. 1:3-6). Occurs at the moment of faith in Christ.

As a result of reconciliation, the barrier of sin is removed. But now the issue becomes what think you of Christ. Man must make a decision to step over the line where the barrier of sin used to be by believing in Christ for salvation.

Man must receive the reconciliation that was accomplished at the Cross. The imputation of God's perfect righteousness and being pronounced justified by God which are involved in reconciliation don't occur until a person believes in Christ. That is why Paul made the appeal that he made in 2 Cor. 5:20. Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were entreating through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.

Romans 3:22 says, even the righteousness of God through faith in Christ Jesus for all those who believe.

The work that Christ accomplished on the Cross takes man out of the red, off the debit side of the ledger, but in order to be placed on the credit side of the ledger, in the black, man must make a decision to believe in Christ so that God's rigteousness can be imputed to him and thereby, be declared by God to be justified. Romans 3:26 for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

See link...

Justification

Therefore it is through faith in Christ that man receives the reconciliation which was accomplished at the Cross. Eternal salvation is applied to the person who places his trust in Jesus Christ. On the other hand, the work of Christ on the Cross is not applied to, is not appropriated by, the person who does not believe in Christ, and that person will die in his sins. (John 8:24).



John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life.

So that's what's involved in reconcilition. As for the phrase 'whether things on earth of things in heaven,' see the following link. Scroll down to verse 20.


Colossians 1 Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary[/quote]
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Old 05-13-2010, 01:38 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,380,989 times
Reputation: 437
I JUST WANT A SIMPLE ANSWER!

WHAT NEEDS RECONCILING IN THE HEAVENS???

The commentators NEVER ANSWER many of the questions I have and CANNOT RECONCILE ALL the verses in the Bible. THEY SIMPLY CANNOT do it logically with their skewed doctrine.



I have a VERY logical mind, and I NEED 2 and 2 to make 4!

I believe GOD IS THE ULTIMATE SCIENTIST, THE ULTIMATE MATHEMATICIAN!

HE IS NOT TRYING TO CONFUSE US and I believe He has a BEAUTIFUL plan that most human beings on this planet miss!

When He says He will RECONCILE ALL, I BELIEVE IT!

Last edited by herefornow; 05-13-2010 at 01:52 PM..
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Old 05-13-2010, 01:48 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,199,823 times
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Mans volition is what saves him right? According to the fundies? So did Paul by his own volition choose Christ? Was Paul seeking after Christ or did Christ choose Paul when he appeared to him on the road to Damascus in person?

Did Christ have mercy on Paul because he was diligently seeking after Christ, or because he was deceived and ignorant of the truth?
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Old 05-13-2010, 02:18 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,721,192 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
And here is what the above poster surely could not help but notice, yet willingly chooses to ignore and reject...

8) dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9) And these will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10) when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day, and to be marveled at among all who have believed--for our testimony to you was believed.

As the above poster shows, Universalists have no interest in the truth. Rather, they simply reject every statement of truth that declares the eternal sufferings of those who reject Christ.

No reasonable person could fail to understand that the duration of the punishment in hell is eternal in nature. But Universalism attracts people who can't and won't face reality.
The above poster is going to be surprised when he goes through the fire.

12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
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Old 05-13-2010, 03:14 PM
 
20,299 posts, read 15,647,071 times
Reputation: 7409
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
Mans volition is what saves him right? According to the fundies? So did Paul by his own volition choose Christ? Was Paul seeking after Christ or did Christ choose Paul when he appeared to him on the road to Damascus in person?

Did Christ have mercy on Paul because he was diligently seeking after Christ, or because he was deceived and ignorant of the truth?
Man's volition is the means by which the gift of salvation is appropriated. Acts 16:31 Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved.

You are already aware of many of the passages that say that man must believe. But you put the cart before the horse and say that man must first be regenerated before he can believe. But John 3:36 doesn't say 'He who has eternal life believes in the Son.' No! Rather, it says, 'He who believes in the Son has eternal life;

People come to Christ in response to the Gospel message. Saul got the Gospel message directly from the Lord Himself.

In His omniscience, God had always known that Saul/Paul would believe in Christ when He saw the resurrected Christ. Romans 8:29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the first-born among many brethren; 30) and whom He predestined, these He also called, and whom He called, these He also justified...

God's Foreknowledge knew that Saul would trust in Christ for salvation on the Damascus road. --> He therefore predestined Paul --> and called him--> and when Paul received Christ as Savior--> God imputed His righteousness to Paul and pronounced him justified.

This is in contrast to the many who durng the Millennium, when the same resurrected Christ is on the earth, ruling from the throne of David, and with the earth full of the knowledge of the Lord (Isa 11:9) will still reject Christ. These people will rebel against Christ when Satan is temporarily released from his imprisonment at the end of the Millennium to incite a war as per Revelation 20:7-10.

And prior to human history, one third of the angelic race rebelled against God despite being in the presence of the Lord in Heaven. As angelic free will began the angelic conflict, so then, man's free will resolves the angeic conflict.
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Old 05-13-2010, 03:17 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,721,192 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Man's volition is the means by which the gift of salvation is appropriated. Acts 16:31 Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved.
This is the third time in the past few days that I've seen you post only part of Acts 16:31. It's obvious you reject parts of the bible, even parts of verses, that you don't like.

31They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household."
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Old 05-13-2010, 03:22 PM
 
20,299 posts, read 15,647,071 times
Reputation: 7409
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
The above poster is going to be surprised when he goes through the fire.

12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
That is the judgment seat of Christ for believers only. It takes place in Heaven immediately following the rapture of the church. The purpose of the judgment seat of Christ is to evaluate the works of the believer for the purpose of reward. (1 Cor 3:12-15; 2 Cor 5:10; Rom 14:10-12. And Revelation 19:8 shows the final inspection of the brides purity prior to returning to the earth with Christ at the Second Advent.)
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Old 05-13-2010, 03:23 PM
 
Location: Nashville, TN
2,031 posts, read 2,685,903 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
This is the third time in the past few days that I've seen you post only part of Acts 16:31. It's obvious you reject parts of the bible, even parts of verses, that you don't like.

31They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household."
"If you read these verses carefully you will see that the offer of salvation by faith in Jesus was offered to the jailer, and to his whole household. The message of salvation was proclaimed to the jailer, and his whole household. The message of salvation was believed by the jailer, and his whole household. And as the jailer professed his faith by being baptized, so did the others in his household. The offer was to the jailer and all of his household. The acceptance of this offer was by the jailer and his whole household, but there is no guarantee that this will always be so."

http://bible.org/question/does-“you-...ly-will-be-too
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