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Old 05-13-2010, 04:31 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CantWait2Leave View Post
"If you read these verses carefully you will see that the offer of salvation by faith in Jesus was offered to the jailer, and to his whole household. The message of salvation was proclaimed to the jailer, and his whole household. The message of salvation was believed by the jailer, and his whole household. And as the jailer professed his faith by being baptized, so did the others in his household. The offer was to the jailer and all of his household. The acceptance of this offer was by the jailer and his whole household, but there is no guarantee that this will always be so."

http://bible.org/question/does-“you-...ly-will-be-too
You used "offer" four times. Do you realize the bible never talks about an "offer?"
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Old 05-13-2010, 04:39 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
Mike, will you answer the question I posted last night, please? Post #82

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
This is the third time in the past few days that I've seen you post only part of Acts 16:31. It's obvious you reject parts of the bible, even parts of verses, that you don't like.

31They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household." Post #168



[quote=Mike555;14133880] Post #88 I just now noticed the question. I think we went over this once already, some time ago. It might have been someone else though.

Acts 16:30 and after he (the jailer) brought them out, he said, ''Sirs, what must I do to be saved?''

Acts 16:31 And they (Paul and Silas) said, ''Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you shall be saved, you and your household.


The statement presumes that each individual member of the jailers household makes a personal decision to believe in Christ and will therefore be saved.

And as it says in Acts 16:32...

Acts 16:32 And they (Paul and Silas) spoke the word of the Lord to him together with all who were in his house.

As the passage states, Paul and Silas spoke the Gospel to everyone in the jailers household, and they each made a personal decision to believe in Christ for salvation and so the entire household was saved.

I assume that's what you were going for since I haven't yet seen your original question.
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Old 05-13-2010, 06:26 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
I JUST WANT A SIMPLE ANSWER!

WHAT NEEDS RECONCILING IN THE HEAVENS???

The commentators NEVER ANSWER many of the questions I have and CANNOT RECONCILE ALL the verses in the Bible. THEY SIMPLY CANNOT do it logically with their skewed doctrine.



I have a VERY logical mind, and I NEED 2 and 2 to make 4!

I believe GOD IS THE ULTIMATE SCIENTIST, THE ULTIMATE MATHEMATICIAN!

HE IS NOT TRYING TO CONFUSE US and I believe He has a BEAUTIFUL plan that most human beings on this planet miss!

When He says He will RECONCILE ALL, I BELIEVE IT!
A simple answer is often not the best answer. However...

Simply look at Col. 1:15. And He (Jesus Christ) is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation. 16) For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities-all things have been created by Him and for Him.

The visible and invisible, the thrones and dominions, the rulers and authorities gather together both the angelic and human races. The only two scripturally revealed levels of intelligent, moral, free-will beings.

Whatever the means that God presented to the fallen angels for the purpose of restoring the broken relationship between them and God is not stated in the Scriptures.

What does it mean that Jesus is the 'first-born' over Creation?

Reconciliation does not mean salvation apart from faith in Christ. I have already given a more complete answer as to what is involved in reconciliation in the other post which you dismissed.
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Old 05-13-2010, 06:39 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
A simple answer is often not the best answer. However...

Simply look at Col. 1:15. And He (Jesus Christ) is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation. 16) For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities-all things have been created by Him and for Him.

The visible and invisible, the thrones and dominions, the rulers and authorities gather together both the angelic and human races. The only two scripturally revealed levels of intelligent, moral, free-will beings.

Whatever the means that God presented to the fallen angels for the purpose of restoring the broken relationship between them and God is not stated in the Scriptures.

What does it mean that Jesus is the 'first-born' over Creation?

Reconciliation does not mean salvation apart from faith in Christ. I have already given a more complete answer as to what is involved in reconciliation in the other post which you dismissed.
You will not answer. Of course you won't. How could you?
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Old 05-13-2010, 06:49 PM
 
3,448 posts, read 2,595,056 times
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A young virtuous man Jew, or many other possible beliefs, goes to war for many
including hell believers.
He is captured and tortured to his last breath.

According to hell believers due to Christianity and belief in hell ,
this man must continue his torture,
for
eternity.

To authorize this, is to authorize the torture from the onset. It is insane.

The jolting aspect is that this soldier is fighting for hell believers
to offer the "grace" of time, to unfold a spirit of love for
their fellow man

Which do you follow in spirit ? Is there any question ?


Absolutely not.

What a shameful requirement for today.
Stargazzer (Christian)

Last edited by stargazzer; 05-13-2010 at 07:22 PM..
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Old 05-13-2010, 07:15 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Man's volition is the means by which the gift of salvation is appropriated. Acts 16:31 Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved.

You are already aware of many of the passages that say that man must believe. But you put the cart before the horse and say that man must first be regenerated before he can believe. But John 3:36 doesn't say 'He who has eternal life believes in the Son.' No! Rather, it says, 'He who believes in the Son has eternal life;

People come to Christ in response to the Gospel message. Saul got the Gospel message directly from the Lord Himself.

In His omniscience, God had always known that Saul/Paul would believe in Christ when He saw the resurrected Christ. Romans 8:29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the first-born among many brethren; 30) and whom He predestined, these He also called, and whom He called, these He also justified...

God's Foreknowledge knew that Saul would trust in Christ for salvation on the Damascus road. --> He therefore predestined Paul --> and called him--> and when Paul received Christ as Savior--> God imputed His righteousness to Paul and pronounced him justified.

This is in contrast to the many who durng the Millennium, when the same resurrected Christ is on the earth, ruling from the throne of David, and with the earth full of the knowledge of the Lord (Isa 11:9) will still reject Christ. These people will rebel against Christ when Satan is temporarily released from his imprisonment at the end of the Millennium to incite a war as per Revelation 20:7-10.

And prior to human history, one third of the angelic race rebelled against God despite being in the presence of the Lord in Heaven. As angelic free will began the angelic conflict, so then, man's free will resolves the angeic conflict.
Paul had already heard the Gospel of Christ before he met Christ on the road to Damascus ... He was persecuting those who were teaching the gospel. He was a pharisee when Christ walked the earth, and he rejected Christ at that time and was one of those responsible for his death as he was a Sanhedrin as well ... Paul converted to Christianity no later than 36 AD, just 3 or less years after Christs death and resurrection ...

Quote:
Galatians provides information to estimate when Paul's conversion may have occurred. Soon after his conversion to Christianity, Paul spent 3 years in Damascus, but escaped the city when the governor under Aretas, king of the Nabateans from 9 BCE to 40 CE, had a garrison deployed to arrest him because of his Christian activities. Paul's conversion could not have occurred later than about 36 CE and was probably somewhat earlier ...

WikiAnswers - How and when did St Paul convert
The fact that he converted after meeting Christ means that he had already rejected the Gospel which had been preached throughout Israel. Who would reject Christ appearing before them in his glorified form and blinding them and the personally teaching them for three years?

Paul never sought willingly after Christ but was forced by the power of Christ in his blinding Paul and appearing in Glory. Paul had no choice to believe that Christ was lord just as no person after the resurrection will reject that he is lord when they are finally in his glorified presence, as at that time all people will will bow before him and confess he is lord.

The same reason that Paul converted will be the same reason all other people will convert and confess Christ is lord at the time of Judgment.



God bless ...
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Old 05-13-2010, 07:32 PM
 
20,353 posts, read 15,737,455 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
You used "offer" four times. Do you realize the bible never talks about an "offer?"
Yes it does. It's not a matter of the word 'offer' being used in the Bible. It's the principle, the concept, the thought. Here's the offer of salvation and the refusal of it by some.

John 1:11 He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him (National Israel). 12) But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name.

Then there's the more familiar John 3:16.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life. (There's the offer).

Here is a rebuke from Jesus to those who reject the offer...

John 5:40 and you are unwilling to come to Me, that you may have life.

And here is an invitation from Jesus to accept the offer...

John 4:10 Jesus answered and said to her, ''If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, ''Give Me a drink,'' you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water. ...13)Jesus answered and said to her, ''Everyone who drinks of this water shall thirst again (the water in the well that the Samarian woman came to draw water from); 14) But whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall become in him a well of water springing up to eternal life.

In John 4:10-14 Jesus expresses the offer of the gift (Yes, the actual word gift-DOREAN-Strong's number G1421-Gratuity, is used) of salvation and the fact that the woman needed to ask for it.


And here is the offer of salvation expressed in the following manner...

John 6:51 ''I am the living bread that came down out of heaven; if anyone eats of this bread, he shall live forever; and the bread also which I shall give for the life of the world is My flesh.''

Salvation is a gift that is offered and can be received or rejected by man.
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Old 05-13-2010, 07:48 PM
 
20,353 posts, read 15,737,455 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
Paul had already heard the Gospel of Christ before he met Christ on the road to Damascus ... He was persecuting those who were teaching the gospel. He was a pharisee when Christ walked the earth, and he rejected Christ at that time and was one of those responsible for his death as he was a Sanhedrin as well ... Paul converted to Christianity no later than 36 AD, just 3 or less years after Christs death and resurrection ...

The fact that he converted after meeting Christ means that he had already rejected the Gospel which had been preached throughout Israel. Who would reject Christ appearing before them in his glorified form and blinding them and the personally teaching them for three years?

Paul never sought willingly after Christ but was forced by the power of Christ in his blinding Paul and appearing in Glory. Paul had no choice to believe that Christ was lord just as no person after the resurrection will reject that he is lord when they are finally in his glorified presence, as at that time all people will will bow before him and confess he is lord.

The same reason that Paul converted will be the same reason all other people will convert and confess Christ is lord at the time of Judgment.



God bless ...
Not everyone who hears the Gospel the first time believes. Paul had been one of the most zealous of the Pharisee's and had to overcome a lifetime of training. So when Paul got it directly from the Lord he believed. No one is ever forced to believe. Again, there are going to be many people during the Millennium who reject the resurrected Christ even though He is physically present on the earth. Revelation 20:7-10.
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Old 05-13-2010, 07:51 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Not everyone who hears the Gospel the first time believes. Paul had been one of the most zealous of the Pharisee's and had to overcome a lifetime of training. So when Paul got it directly from the Lord he believed. No one is ever forced to believe. Again, there are going to be many people during the Millennium who reject the resurrected Christ even though He is physically present on the earth. Revelation 20:7-10.

It was Pauls PERSONAL encounter and revelation with Christ that caused him to believe. And at the time of judgment, every tongue will confess that Christ is lord(Phl 2:11). And if you confess that Christ is lord you will be saved(Rom 10:9).
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Old 05-13-2010, 07:52 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
You will not answer. Of course you won't. How could you?
You have been answered twice now in two different posts. A fairly complete answer in one post defining the meaning of reconciliation, and when you rejected that, a more simple answer as you asked for.
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