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Old 05-13-2010, 07:00 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,380,473 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
You have been answered twice now in two different posts. A fairly complete answer in one post defining the meaning of reconciliation, and when you rejected that, a more simple answer as you asked for.

So, just because I do not agree with the commentary that you copy and paste a million times a day, I'm in the wrong? How convenient for you! (Just a quick FYI: I've got my own brain and I like to use it)

Let me ask you an honest question? How many times on these threads have you ever said you were wrong? How many times have you said, "Wow! That's an interesting way of seeing things!" Or, "I've never thought of it that way!". Or, even, "I missed that, thanks!"

I have caught quite a few blunders in your posts, but you refuse to listen to correction.

You are not here to learn anything. That much is obvious.

I hope you have your own followers. People really do need a leader that knows all.

Last edited by herefornow; 05-13-2010 at 07:11 PM..
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Old 05-13-2010, 07:08 PM
 
Location: SC Foothills
8,830 posts, read 9,747,770 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Not everyone who hears the Gospel the first time believes. Paul had been one of the most zealous of the Pharisee's and had to overcome a lifetime of training. So when Paul got it directly from the Lord he believed. No one is ever forced to believe. Again, there are going to be many people during the Millennium who reject the resurrected Christ even though He is physically present on the earth. Revelation 20:7-10.
Yes, but Paul was MADE to believe, it was not of his own doing and God did in fact force it by changing Saul to Paul. It was God's will, therefore it was. The thing about this millennial reign.....Satan is once again released to "deceive the nations". God ALLOWS this!!! Can you not see what is happening at this time? Satan will have another chance, for whatever reason, to try and gain souls but once again God wins......he will reconcile these people also. You'll notice that no one goes into the lake of "burning sulfur" EXCEPT the devil, the beast and the false prophet. Interesting that it does not say anyone else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
It was Pauls PERSONAL encounter and revelation with Christ that caused him to believe. And at the time of judgment, every tongue will confess that Christ is lord(Phl 2:11). And if you confess that Christ is lord you will be saved(Rom 10:9).
Amen! Cannot be any more simply put than this.
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Old 05-13-2010, 07:28 PM
 
3,448 posts, read 2,581,387 times
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So where is reply to my post ?
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Old 05-13-2010, 07:32 PM
 
3,448 posts, read 2,581,387 times
Reputation: 478
The scripture is the scripture, and it is for good reason that it exists.
Many interpretations unfold and argument ensues naturally.
The interpretations must hold up to logically applied common sence(if scripture told us to all self destruct it would not be logical)
to justify the...WHY. There is a rerason WHY the message is here for us
Please mike555 address my post as it explains , why in my opinion you
inter pet Scripture incorrectly
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Old 05-13-2010, 07:39 PM
 
3,448 posts, read 2,581,387 times
Reputation: 478
Here it is again for your ease:

Quote:
Originally Posted by stargazzer View Post
A young virtuous man Jew, or many other possible beliefs, goes to war for many
including hell believers.
He is captured and tortured to his last breath.

According to hell believers due to Christianity and belief in hell ,
this man must continue his torture,
for
eternity.

To authorize this, is to authorize the torture from the onset. It is insane.

The jolting aspect is that this soldier is fighting for hell believers
to offer the "grace" of time, to unfold a spirit of love for
their fellow man

Which do you follow in spirit ? Is there any question ?


Absolutely not.

What a shameful requirement for today.
Stargazzer (Christian)
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Old 05-13-2010, 08:01 PM
 
3,448 posts, read 2,581,387 times
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Don't forget Mike555 the explanation must be a Christian explanation
that you feel befits Christianity to tell.....

The Family of the martyred soldier ,

And the Country he fought for
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Old 05-13-2010, 09:22 PM
 
20,298 posts, read 15,642,764 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Yes it is. The moment will come when all of creation will have acknowledged that Jesus is Lord. Those who placed their faith in Christ for salvation will of course, and already do willingly and joyfully acknowledge that Christ is Lord. But there will come a time when all of creation will be forced to the realization that Jesus is Lord. When His enemies are standing before Christ at the Great White throne judgment and He is sitting on that throne in all His glory and holiness and power, and heaven and earth have fled away from His presence (Rev 20:11), all who rejected Him as Savior will know finally that Jesus Christ is Lord and will acknowledge it on bended knee, and in fear, just before they are thrown into the lake of fire forever. The angelic conflict will have run its course. God's objectives in implimenting human history will have been achieved. Satan's sentence to the lake of fire, given before human history began, will finally be carried out, and everything will have been wrapped up. All who have chosen to have an eternal relationship with Christ will have entered into the fullness of that relationship, and all who have rejected Christ will have been consigned to their eternal habitation, forever separated from God, away from the glory of His power.


The Angelic conflict, the invisible spiritual warfare...

http://www.city-data.com/forum/chris...l-warfare.html
This is your reply to my post above...

Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
God says He is RECONCILING things in HEAVEN and EARTH!

I don't know how exactly He is bringing this about, but I wouldn't put it past Him. If He says He is going to do something, I'm inclined to believe it.
The following was my answer to you...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Colossians 1:19 For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fulness to dwell in Him, 20) and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His Cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven. 21) yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach.

Universal reconciliation is not the salvation of all men. The two don't equate because of the issue of man's volition being involved.

Reconciliation means to make at peace.

The work of Christ on the Cross is threefold in its direction. Redemption is sinward (man is redeemed from sin), and propitiation is Godward (God the Father is satisfied with the work of Christ on the Cross). Reconciliation is manward. (2 Cor 5:18,19; Eph 2:16; Col 1:20).

Because of sin, man is the enemy of God. (Rom 5:10; Col 1:21).

However, because of the sum total of the various facets of the work that Christ accomplished on the Cross, man has been made at peace with God-Reconciliation. (Eph 2:14-16; Col 1:20).

The prophecy of reconciliation is in (Isaiah 57:19).

Reconciliation is the result of the following:

1) Sin is removed by (a) Unlimited Atonement: (2 Cor 5:14, 15, 19; 1 Tim. 2:6; 4:10; Tit. 2:11; Heb. 2:9; 2 Pet 2:1; 1 John 2:2). (b) Redemption: (Gal. 3:13; Eph. 1:7; Col. 1:14; 1 Pet. 1:18,19).

2) The Penalty of sin is removed by Expiation: ( Psa. 22;1-6; Col. 2:14).

3) Regeneration- being born again: (John 3:1-18; Tit. 3:5; 1 Pet. 1:23). Occurs at the moment of faith in Christ.

4) The removal of the problem of man's relative righteousness or human good by the Imputation of God's very own absolute righteousness: (Rom. 3:22; 9:30-10:10; 2 Cor. 5:21; Phil. 3:9; Heb. 10:14). Occurs at the moment of faith in Christ.

5) Justification-being pronounced justified by God as a result of the imputation of His righteousness: (Rom. 4:1-5; 4:25; 5:1; 8:29,30; Gal. 2:16; Tit. 3:7). Occurs at the moment of faith in Christ.

6) God's perfect character satisfied or propitiated: (Rom. 3:22-26; 1 John 2:1,2).

7) Man's position in Adam is removed by Positional Sanctification (1 Cor. 15:22; 2 Cor. 5:17; Eph. 1:3-6). Occurs at the moment of faith in Christ.

As a result of reconciliation, the barrier of sin is removed. But now the issue becomes what think you of Christ. Man must make a decision to step over the line where the barrier of sin used to be by believing in Christ for salvation.

Man must receive the reconciliation that was accomplished at the Cross. The imputation of God's perfect righteousness and being pronounced justified by God which are involved in reconciliation don't occur until a person believes in Christ. That is why Paul made the appeal that he made in 2 Cor. 5:20. Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were entreating through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.

Romans 3:22 says, even the righteousness of God through faith in Christ Jesus for all those who believe.

The work that Christ accomplished on the Cross takes man out of the red, off the debit side of the ledger, but in order to be placed on the credit side of the ledger, in the black, man must make a decision to believe in Christ so that God's rigteousness can be imputed to him and thereby, be declared by God to be justified. Romans 3:26 for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

See link...

Justification

Therefore it is through faith in Christ that man receives the reconciliation which was accomplished at the Cross. Eternal salvation is applied to the person who places his trust in Jesus Christ. On the other hand, the work of Christ on the Cross is not applied to, is not appropriated by, the person who does not believe in Christ, and that person will die in his sins. (John 8:24).



John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life.

So that's what's involved in reconcilition. As for the phrase 'whether things on earth of things in heaven,' see the following link. Scroll down to verse 20.


Colossians 1 Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary
Here was your reaction...

Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
Some people on this forum, and I won't name names, need a better understanding of what reconcile means.

I will give you a couple of definitions.

1.To reestablish a close relationship between.2. To settle or resolve.

When God says He is reconciling ALL things in HEAVEN and EARTH, HE WILL DO WHAT HE SAYS!

Again, what all in the universe needs reconciling?????

When you finally figure it out,
EVERY VERSE IN THE BIBLE WILL MAKE SENSE!
Here was your reply to my reply (which I didn't post here because of length) to your post above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
I JUST WANT A SIMPLE ANSWER!

WHAT NEEDS RECONCILING IN THE HEAVENS???

The commentators NEVER ANSWER many of the questions I have and CANNOT RECONCILE ALL the verses in the Bible. THEY SIMPLY CANNOT do it logically with their skewed doctrine.



I have a VERY logical mind, and I NEED 2 and 2 to make 4!

I believe GOD IS THE ULTIMATE SCIENTIST, THE ULTIMATE MATHEMATICIAN!

HE IS NOT TRYING TO CONFUSE US and I believe He has a BEAUTIFUL plan that most human beings on this planet miss!

When He says He will RECONCILE ALL, I BELIEVE IT!
Here is my simple answer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
A simple answer is often not the best answer. However...

Simply look at Col. 1:15. And He (Jesus Christ) is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation. 16) For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities-all things have been created by Him and for Him.

The visible and invisible, the thrones and dominions, the rulers and authorities gather together both the angelic and human races. The only two scripturally revealed levels of intelligent, moral, free-will beings.

Whatever the means that God presented to the fallen angels for the purpose of restoring the broken relationship between them and God is not stated in the Scriptures.

What does it mean that Jesus is the 'first-born' over Creation?

Reconciliation does not mean salvation apart from faith in Christ. I have already given a more complete answer as to what is involved in reconciliation in the other post which you dismissed.
Here is your reaction...

Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
You will not answer. Of course you won't. How could you?
Here is my response to your reaction...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
You have been answered twice now in two different posts. A fairly complete answer in one post defining the meaning of reconciliation, and when you rejected that, a more simple answer as you asked for.
Here is your reaction to my response...

Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
So, just because I do not agree with the commentary that you copy and paste a million times a day, I'm in the wrong? How convenient for you! (Just a quick FYI: I've got my own brain and I like to use it)

Let me ask you an honest question? How many times on these threads have you ever said you were wrong? How many times have you said, "Wow! That's an interesting way of seeing things!" Or, "I've never thought of it that way!". Or, even, "I missed that, thanks!"

I have caught quite a few blunders in your posts, but you refuse to listen to correction.

You are not here to learn anything. That much is obvious.

I hope you have your own followers. People really do need a leader that knows all.
Your question was answered.
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Old 05-13-2010, 10:04 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,380,473 times
Reputation: 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
This is your reply to my post above...



The following was my answer to you...



Here was your reaction...



Here was your reply to my reply (which I didn't post here because of length) to your post above.



Here is my simple answer.



Here is your reaction...



Here is my response to your reaction..



Here is your reaction to my response...



Your question was answered.
This is what you (Mike555) stated in a previous post: Whatever the means that God presented to the fallen angels for the purpose of restoring the broken relationship between them and God is not stated in the Scriptures.


Did I read your post correctly?! Do you mean to tell me that you believe God is indeed reconciling the angels that fell?? And you don't believe He is also reconciling blind humanity as well?!

I'm shocked right out of my boots!! Well, I don't have boots on, but if I did, I would be shocked right out of them!!!
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Old 05-13-2010, 10:09 PM
 
20,298 posts, read 15,642,764 times
Reputation: 7408
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
It was Pauls PERSONAL encounter and revelation with Christ that caused him to believe. And at the time of judgment, every tongue will confess that Christ is lord(Phl 2:11). And if you confess that Christ is lord you will be saved(Rom 10:9).
No. Believing in Christ for salvation while alive on this earth is not at all the same thing as being compelled at the Great White Throne judgment to acknowledge that Jesus is Lord. At that time, it will have nothing to do with free will. That time will have passed. Just before they are tossed into the eternal fire, every person who rejected Christ will have to give acknowledgment as a defeated enemy of Christ, that He is Lord.

Yes. But God did not reach into Sauls brain and flip a switch which made Saul believe. Saul/Paul simply responded to the evidence. That is not forcing someone to believe. It was simply presenting evidence that in Pauls case (and would be with most people) was enough to make him realize that he had been wrong. He could have still denied the evidence perhaps thinking he was crazy. Or he could have tried to rationalize the experience away. But he didn't, and God knew that he would have a positive response to the encounter.

Also, understand that the meaning of 'believe' has to do with placing your faith in Christ. As I have already pointed out twice, during the Millennium, there are going to be numerous people who are going to reject Christ as Savior, even though He is physically present on the earth ruling from the throne of David. They won't want anything to do with Jesus Christ. And when Satan is released from the pit at the end of the Millennium, he will incite those people to start a war which Jesus will quickly put an end to. Then the Great White Throne judgment will take place and all of unbelieving mankind and the fallen angels will be thrown into the eternal fire. Revelation chapter 20.


The rebellion at the end of the Millennium...

What are Gog and Magog?

So even though the resurrected Jesus will have been ruling for a thousand years from the throne of David, and there will have been perfect envionment on the earth, and the earth will have been full of the knowledge of the Lord, and even though Satan will have been locked away during that entire time, there will be people who use their free will to reject Jesus and to rebel against Him at the end of the Millennium.

Just as, before human history began, one third of the angels used their free will to rebel against God even though they had been in the presence of God in the throneroom of God. They had had access to the third Heaven, they knew the glory of the Lord, and yet they chose to side with Satan.

Man is quite capable of using his God given free-will in defiance of God because God permits it during the course of the angelic conflict.

The Angelic Conflict; the Spiritual Warfare
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Old 05-13-2010, 10:26 PM
 
20,298 posts, read 15,642,764 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
This is what you (Mike555) stated in a previous post: Whatever the means that God presented to the fallen angels for the purpose of restoring the broken relationship between them and God is not stated in the Scriptures.


Did I read your post correctly?! Do you mean to tell me that you believe God is indeed reconciling the angels that fell?? And you don't believe He is also reconciling blind humanity as well?!

I'm shocked right out of my boots!! Well, I don't have boots on, but if I did, I would be shocked right out of them!!!
You didn't read the first answer very well. All mankind has been reconciled to God. But that does not mean that all men are saved. I believe that I have explained it very well. But I cant make you read with comprehension. That's up to you.

Regarding the angels, I said that the Bible doesn't reveal whatever means that God used to offer the opportunity to the fallen angels to be restored to a relationship with Himself. All we know is that the fallen angels chose to reject the offer that God made to them. They along with Satan will be thrown into the lake of fire and will be joined by unbelieving humanity.
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