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Old 05-23-2010, 12:09 PM
 
20,323 posts, read 15,678,979 times
Reputation: 7441

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Quote:
Originally Posted by daddythreepointoh View Post
Since I am in my dad's hospital room on a slow, small laptop I really can't look up what I want in order to refute the vast majority of what you are saying. Bummer, LOL. But, according to you, what is Hades, as opposed to hell?
I hope your father is okay.

The word of God reveals that Hades is the temporary place of confinement for those who have died without believing in Christ for salvation. Just as Tartarus is the temporary place of confinement for the particular group of fallen angels that were involved in the Genesis 6 incident which resulted in the Nephilim. After the Millennium, unbelieving humanity in hades will be resurrected to stand before the Great White Throne judgment for final judgment by Jesus Christ and transfered to the permanent place of confinement known as the lake of fire among other descriptive terms. (Revelation 20:11-15)

The folowing links will help your understanding of the differences between Hades, Tartarus, Gehenna-the lake of fire, and the pit or abyss.

Hell Part 1: Assurance of Eternal Torment for the Lost

Hell Part 2: The Differences between Hades and the Lake of Fire

What Does the Bible say about Hell?

Understanding "Hell" - Gehenna, Lake of Fire, Hades, Sheol, Tartarus, Abyss



Quote:
The last paragraph is the easiest. You are stating that there is no basis for a relationship between God and man because of one man's sin that fell upon everyone else. How is that justice? Why, according to you, are billions of people in and on the way to hell? What did they do to make themselves unrighteous? Isn't God ultimately in control?
The following is an old post of mine...

Adam's relationship with God was based on remaining in perfect obedience to God's command to not eat of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. That was the only command that the Lord had given to Adam. It was a volitional test for Adam in order for his volition to have something with which to work. God set that particular tree in the Garden and then gave Adam a command not to eat its fruit.

As long as Adam obeyed that command, his relationship with God continued. God had always known that Adam would fail the volitional test and used Adam's disobedience to advance His plan. God had told Adam that if he ate the fruit in disobedience to God then, ''dying you shall die.'' (the correct translation from the Hebrew of Gen.2:17.) 'Dying' refers to Adams spiritual death [separation from God] which occurred immediately after eating the fruit. 'You shall die' refers to Adam's physical death which occurred more than 900 years later and which was the result of his spiritual death.

When Adam sinned, he acquired an old sin nature and now when any member of the human race is born, that person is born with an old sin nature which is genetic and is passed down through the male when the sperm fertilizes the egg. When the fetus emerges from the womb and the baby is born, the old sin nature becomes active and at that point God imputes Adam's original sin to that sin nature. This results in being born physically alive but spiritually dead and in need of salvation. Before Adam sinned he didn't need salvation. After he sinned, he then became in need of salvation.

Adam's relationship with God depended on never disobeying God. But by causing every member of the human race to be born spiritually dead, God has placed the entire human race under the umbrella of grace. By being in need of salvation from the moment of birth, God made it possible for man to enter into a relationship with Him through one simple act of faith in Christ.

Our personal sins were never imputed to us for condemnation. We are comdemned because of Adam's original sin. Our personal sins were stored up until that moment in history when Christ came into the world and paid the penalty for our sins at the Cross. The work of Christ on the Cross removed sin as a barrier and now when we believe in Christ for salvation, we step over the line where the barrier of sin used to be and enter into a permanent relationship with God which can never be lost.

Before he sinned, Adams point of contact with God was divine love. But after he sinned and then believed in Christ for salvation, his point of contact with God became divine justice, not love. Our point of contact with God is divine justice, not divine love. Yes, God loves us, but the demands of His righteousness must be met. When we believe in Christ, God the Father imputes His very own righteousness to us and so when He sees us, He sees His own righteousness in us and then pronounces us justified.

When Adam sinned, he couldn't remain in fellowship with God because he had come under divine cursing. What the righteousness of God demands, His justice must curse. And so that is why God provided a means of salvaton for us.
--------------------
To add to it, man is born already spiritually dead. Already under eternal condemnation. God has provided a way to escape the penalty of sin which is death. Not merely physical death, but spiritual death which is separation from God in time. And if a person dies without Christ, that separation from God in time becomes eternal separation from God in the lake of fire which is called the second death. Revelation 20:14.



Quote:
Man makes no free will decision for or against Christ if they don't become born again. They simply don't understand and are ignorant of His love for them. That is different than rejecting.
To the contrary. Faith precedes salvation. It is by means of making a free-will decision to place your faith in Christ that the work of Christ on the Cross is applied to you resulting in your being born again.

The purpose of the Gospel message is to make the issue in salvation clear to the hearer of the Gospel. Since the hearer of the Gospel is a spiritually dead person and incapable of understanding spiritual phenomenon, the Holy Spirit steps in and through His ministry of common grace, makes the Gospel message perspicacious to that person. Once the person understands the issue, he then must make a choice to either receive the offer of salvation or to reject it. If he decides to place his faith in Christ for salvation, then the Holy Spirit in His ministry of efficacious grace, carries that faith to the point of salvation. He makes the faith effective for salvation.

***Again, faith must precede salvation. In actuality faith and salvation are simultaneous. But in understanding it, it must be understood that salvation is the result of faith.

John 5:40 And you are unwilling to come to Me, that you may have life.


Romans 3:26 for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness, at the present time, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Christ.

Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness.

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith...

1 Peter 1:9 obtaining as the outcome of your faith the salvation of your souls.

John 3:36 He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.

John 3:31 but these have been written that you may belive that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that by believing you may have life in His name.

Apart from the Gospel message, there is no understanding of the issue of salvation. God will get the Gospel to all who are positive at the point of God consciousness, no matter how geographically isolated they may be. God planned it all out in eternity past. To those who are negitive at the point of God consciousness, God has no responsibiltiy to get the Gospel to them.

This link should help to clarify the issue...

DOES REGENERATION PRECEDE FAITH
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Old 05-23-2010, 12:56 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit
428 posts, read 691,967 times
Reputation: 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
I hope your father is okay.

The word of God reveals that Hades is the temporary place of confinement for those who have died without believing in Christ for salvation. Just as Tartarus is the temporary place of confinement for the particular group of fallen angels that were involved in the Genesis 6 incident which resulted in the Nephilim. After the Millennium, unbelieving humanity in hades will be resurrected to stand before the Great White Throne judgment for final judgment by Jesus Christ and transfered to the permanent place of confinement known as the lake of fire among other descriptive terms. (Revelation 20:11-15)

The folowing links will help your understanding of the differences between Hades, Tartarus, Gehenna-the lake of fire, and the pit or abyss.

Hell Part 1: Assurance of Eternal Torment for the Lost

Hell Part 2: The Differences between Hades and the Lake of Fire

What Does the Bible say about Hell?

Understanding "Hell" - Gehenna, Lake of Fire, Hades, Sheol, Tartarus, Abyss





The following is an old post of mine...

Adam's relationship with God was based on remaining in perfect obedience to God's command to not eat of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. That was the only command that the Lord had given to Adam. It was a volitional test for Adam in order for his volition to have something with which to work. God set that particular tree in the Garden and then gave Adam a command not to eat its fruit.

As long as Adam obeyed that command, his relationship with God continued. God had always known that Adam would fail the volitional test and used Adam's disobedience to advance His plan. God had told Adam that if he ate the fruit in disobedience to God then, ''dying you shall die.'' (the correct translation from the Hebrew of Gen.2:17.) 'Dying' refers to Adams spiritual death [separation from God] which occurred immediately after eating the fruit. 'You shall die' refers to Adam's physical death which occurred more than 900 years later and which was the result of his spiritual death.

When Adam sinned, he acquired an old sin nature and now when any member of the human race is born, that person is born with an old sin nature which is genetic and is passed down through the male when the sperm fertilizes the egg. When the fetus emerges from the womb and the baby is born, the old sin nature becomes active and at that point God imputes Adam's original sin to that sin nature. This results in being born physically alive but spiritually dead and in need of salvation. Before Adam sinned he didn't need salvation. After he sinned, he then became in need of salvation.

Adam's relationship with God depended on never disobeying God. But by causing every member of the human race to be born spiritually dead, God has placed the entire human race under the umbrella of grace. By being in need of salvation from the moment of birth, God made it possible for man to enter into a relationship with Him through one simple act of faith in Christ.

Our personal sins were never imputed to us for condemnation. We are comdemned because of Adam's original sin. Our personal sins were stored up until that moment in history when Christ came into the world and paid the penalty for our sins at the Cross. The work of Christ on the Cross removed sin as a barrier and now when we believe in Christ for salvation, we step over the line where the barrier of sin used to be and enter into a permanent relationship with God which can never be lost.

Before he sinned, Adams point of contact with God was divine love. But after he sinned and then believed in Christ for salvation, his point of contact with God became divine justice, not love. Our point of contact with God is divine justice, not divine love. Yes, God loves us, but the demands of His righteousness must be met. When we believe in Christ, God the Father imputes His very own righteousness to us and so when He sees us, He sees His own righteousness in us and then pronounces us justified.

When Adam sinned, he couldn't remain in fellowship with God because he had come under divine cursing. What the righteousness of God demands, His justice must curse. And so that is why God provided a means of salvaton for us.
--------------------
To add to it, man is born already spiritually dead. Already under eternal condemnation. God has provided a way to escape the penalty of sin which is death. Not merely physical death, but spiritual death which is separation from God in time. And if a person dies without Christ, that separation from God in time becomes eternal separation from God in the lake of fire which is called the second death. Revelation 20:14.





To the contrary. Faith precedes salvation. It is by means of making a free-will decision to place your faith in Christ that the work of Christ on the Cross is applied to you resulting in your being born again.

The purpose of the Gospel message is to make the issue in salvation clear to the hearer of the Gospel. Since the hearer of the Gospel is a spiritually dead person and incapable of understanding spiritual phenomenon, the Holy Spirit steps in and through His ministry of common grace, makes the Gospel message perspicacious to that person. Once the person understands the issue, he then must make a choice to either receive the offer of salvation or to reject it. If he decides to place his faith in Christ for salvation, then the Holy Spirit in His ministry of efficacious grace, carries that faith to the point of salvation. He makes the faith effective for salvation.

***Again, faith must precede salvation. In actuality faith and salvation are simultaneous. But in understanding it, it must be understood that salvation is the result of faith.

John 5:40 And you are unwilling to come to Me, that you may have life.


Romans 3:26 for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness, at the present time, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Christ.

Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness.

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith...

1 Peter 1:9 obtaining as the outcome of your faith the salvation of your souls.

John 3:36 He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.

John 3:31 but these have been written that you may belive that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that by believing you may have life in His name.

Apart from the Gospel message, there is no understanding of the issue of salvation. God will get the Gospel to all who are positive at the point of God consciousness, no matter how geographically isolated they may be. God planned it all out in eternity past. To those who are negitive at the point of God consciousness, God has no responsibiltiy to get the Gospel to them.

This link should help to clarify the issue...

DOES REGENERATION PRECEDE FAITH
Will respond later. Take Care!
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Old 06-02-2010, 10:24 AM
 
Location: Metro Detroit
428 posts, read 691,967 times
Reputation: 123
So sorry I haven't responded. I really do want to but right now my dad is battling stage 4 brain cancer and I live with him to help care for him and life is crazy. Thanks...
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Old 06-02-2010, 10:29 AM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,688,799 times
Reputation: 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by daddythreepointoh View Post
So sorry I haven't responded. I really do want to but right now my dad is battling stage 4 brain cancer and I live with him to help care for him and life is crazy. Thanks...

Will be praying for your situation.
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Old 06-02-2010, 02:30 PM
 
Location: Nashville, TN
2,031 posts, read 2,689,533 times
Reputation: 528
Quote:
Originally Posted by daddythreepointoh View Post
So sorry I haven't responded. I really do want to but right now my dad is battling stage 4 brain cancer and I live with him to help care for him and life is crazy. Thanks...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
Will be praying for your situation.
As will I.
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Old 06-02-2010, 08:01 PM
 
3,581 posts, read 457,910 times
Reputation: 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by daddythreepointoh View Post
So sorry I haven't responded. I really do want to but right now my dad is battling stage 4 brain cancer and I live with him to help care for him and life is crazy. Thanks...
I am so sorry my thoughts and prayers are with you and your father.
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Old 06-02-2010, 08:54 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,384,963 times
Reputation: 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by daddythreepointoh View Post
So sorry I haven't responded. I really do want to but right now my dad is battling stage 4 brain cancer and I live with him to help care for him and life is crazy. Thanks...


I'm sure that takes a lot of energy, so please take care of yourself. I'll be thinking of you.
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Old 06-05-2010, 10:35 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit
428 posts, read 691,967 times
Reputation: 123
Thanks everyone. I SO want to write more but...even when I've had time lately I just have felt so drained, I felt I just couldn't debate! LOL...thanks so much for your prayers, they are much appreciated.
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