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Old 05-11-2010, 12:44 AM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,725,440 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Do not twist and distort what I have said in an attempt to push your agenda.
How did I twist this? "It touches on some of the so called 'second chance' verses that Universalist's misuse to promote the false teaching that all men will be saved.

What I was doing was UNTWISTING your version of what UR people believe. UR stands for Universal Reconciliation. People don't have a second chance to reconcile to God. God reconciles all people Himself. Salvation is a complete work of God. It is finished. So, you could at least bother to understand UR before you start threads attacking it and the belief that God is not a torturer.
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Old 05-11-2010, 12:49 AM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,725,440 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Before being thrown into hell, the unbeliever will acknowledge in fear and as a defeated enemy of Christ, that He is Lord. Not Savior, but Lord. For Christ is Lord of all. Even of those who have rejected Him and will spend eternity in hell because of it.
So much for your version of the "good news."
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Old 05-11-2010, 12:50 AM
 
Location: Nashville, TN
2,031 posts, read 2,693,931 times
Reputation: 528
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
Why do people who believe in hell carry on their daily lives without constantly warning people about hell? Doesn't the bible say the second greatest commandment is to love others as ourselves? If hell is a literal fire, then nothing else in this entire world matters - NOTHING! If I'm wrong, I wish someone would name one thing that is as important as preventing people from burning forever.

I'm not being judgmental because I ask myself quite often why I was like that for so many years, but I still don't have a definite answer for that. We as Christians are not taught to worry that much about it. Ever wonder why? Why do people go to church and meet with other believers, and then go about their merry way? Why do churches think they have time to help their members grow spiritually and have fun, when people right outside the doors (and inside) are dying and supposedly going to hell? Are you going to stand before God and be proud of your knowledge of the bible, while your next door neighbor or your child's teacher are burning for eternity?

How can anyone who loves God and loves others as themselves enjoy a nice dinner out, without knowing whether or not their waiter is on his way to hell? How can they have peace if friends, co-workers, or family members might be going to hell? How can they go anywhere and look another human being in the eye without warning them about hell? Maybe Christians really don't believe what they say they do about a literal fire. If they really do, I'm quite sure God is watching to see if they really love their neighbor. It seems you wouldn't really even have to love them a whole lot to try to keep them from burning forever. Just a little bit of love should take care of that. Right? If a perfect stranger were about to be stung by a bee, most people would warn them. Why don't they warn them of hell?

When I finally did care enough about all people, even total strangers, to cry out to God to ask Him what He wanted me to do, He revealed his true character to me and the Holy Spirit showed me that God would never burn anyone for eternity, and that Jesus is indeed the Savior of the World!
I've answered this so many times I can't even count them all. People don't respond positively to what you are suggesting people should do. Everyone thinks they are right. If I'm at a restaurant and tell my waiter about hell and say if he doesn't repent he'll be there, he will think I'm nuts and a crazy person. He won't say, "Wow, thank you so much! I'm going to be a Christian now." I am supposed to be praying for them and being a witness for Jesus Christ. Yelling and screaming REPENT, REPENT will do nothing! People don't respond positively to this!! This is why the average Christian doesn't do it. When I was in college there was a few Christians who would hold huge signs about hell and sinners and tell everyone to repent. I remember every single time they showed up on campus, people would walk by trying to not make eye contact because they thought they were nuts. No one wanted to talk to them and become saved. I never saw people taking what they said seriously. Again, what Jesus wants us to do is pray for them and love them by showing them Christ's love. This will attract them. Not warning every stranger you meet about hell and why they don't want to go there. I have peace because I am doing my part and God is in control of the rest.

In America, people do know about God and hell. People don't care! They think they are right. Prayer is a powerful thing and it works! This is what the Lord asks of us!
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Old 05-11-2010, 12:57 AM
 
5,752 posts, read 4,601,277 times
Reputation: 4180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
Why do people who believe in hell carry on their daily lives without constantly warning people about hell? Doesn't the bible say the second greatest commandment is to love others as ourselves? If hell is a literal fire, then nothing else in this entire world matters - NOTHING! If I'm wrong, I wish someone would name one thing that is as important as preventing people from burning forever.

I'm not being judgmental because I ask myself quite often why I was like that for so many years, but I still don't have a definite answer for that. We as Christians are not taught to worry that much about it. Ever wonder why? Why do people go to church and meet with other believers, and then go about their merry way? Why do churches think they have time to help their members grow spiritually and have fun, when people right outside the doors (and inside) are dying and supposedly going to hell? Are you going to stand before God and be proud of your knowledge of the bible, while your next door neighbor or your child's teacher are burning for eternity?

How can anyone who loves God and loves others as themselves enjoy a nice dinner out, without knowing whether or not their waiter is on his way to hell? How can they have peace if friends, co-workers, or family members might be going to hell? How can they go anywhere and look another human being in the eye without warning them about hell? Maybe Christians really don't believe what they say they do about a literal fire. If they really do, I'm quite sure God is watching to see if they really love their neighbor. It seems you wouldn't really even have to love them a whole lot to try to keep them from burning forever. Just a little bit of love should take care of that. Right? If a perfect stranger were about to be stung by a bee, most people would warn them. Why don't they warn them of hell?

When I finally did care enough about all people, even total strangers, to cry out to God to ask Him what He wanted me to do, He revealed his true character to me and the Holy Spirit showed me that God would never burn anyone for eternity, and that Jesus is indeed the Savior of the World!

It's so true.
What you said above in the bold is absolutely my testimony as well.
It's how God opened my eyes, too.
It's amazing isn't it..?
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Old 05-11-2010, 12:57 AM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,725,440 times
Reputation: 263
Quote:
Originally Posted by CantWait2Leave View Post
I've answered this so many times I can't even count them all. People don't respond positively to what you are suggesting people should do. Everyone thinks they are right. If I'm at a restaurant and tell my waiter about hell and say if he doesn't repent he'll be there, he will think I'm nuts and a crazy person. He won't say, "Wow, thank you so much! I'm going to be a Christian now." I am supposed to be praying for them and being a witness for Jesus Christ. Yelling and screaming REPENT, REPENT will do nothing! People don't respond positively to this!! This is why the average Christian doesn't do it. When I was in college there was a few Christians who would hold huge signs about hell and sinners and tell everyone to repent. I remember every single time they showed up on campus, people would walk by trying to not make eye contact because they thought they were nuts. No one wanted to talk to them and become saved. I never saw people taking what they said seriously. Again, what Jesus wants us to do is pray for them and love them by showing them Christ's love. This will attract them. Not warning every stranger you meet about hell and why they don't want to go there. I have peace because I am doing my part and God is in control of the rest.
That's exactly how I felt before God opened my eyes, but this is all just an excuse so people don't feel like it's their responsibility. The other big reason, I suppose, is there isn't a scripture that says, "Go into the streets and warn people that they will burn forever in the lake of fire! If you love your neighbor, try to help them avoid the torment and torture that never ends! Warn them, you believers! Don't let the sun go down on your failed attempt to help others avoid being trapped in fire forever." Why is it not in the bible, CW2L? Please think and pray about this. If hell is a literal fire, NOTHING ELSE MATTERS.
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Old 05-11-2010, 12:58 AM
 
3,448 posts, read 2,592,588 times
Reputation: 478
Hell is illogical.
In order for hell to exist the great creator must....
contemplate the existence and suggested eternity of unspeakable slaughter.
My creator does not.....contemplate such.
Does yours..?
Well then, who is your God ? Perhaps he has imagined forks of red.
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Old 05-11-2010, 01:02 AM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,725,440 times
Reputation: 263
Quote:
Originally Posted by .sparrow. View Post
It's so true.
What you said above in the bold is absolutely my testimony as well.
It's how God opened my eyes, too.
It's amazing isn't it..?
Yes, it is! And, I'm still soul-searching to figure out why I didn't see it sooner, or at least grieve over "lost souls" like I should have, given what I believed.
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Old 05-11-2010, 01:02 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,412,771 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
The eternal security of the believer and the false teaching of universalism are worlds apart. The eternal security of one who has believed in Christ for salvation is the reality of the word of God. The false teaching that all men are going to be saved is a lie directly from the mind of Satan and promoted by those whom he has deceived.
What do you find so appalling about all men being saved?

Why does it seems so evil? You believe people can have eternal security UNLESS.. they were never really saved in the first place... a wishy washy sort of thing to believe IMO.

Quote:
Eternal salvation results from a change of mind about Christ, which is what true repentence is. The issue in salvation is placing your trust-faith-belief in Christ.
I don't remember reading about eternal salvation....

Don't you mean trust-faith-belief-repentance?

Quote:
Acts 16:31 Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved.

The merit is not in the faith but rather, the merit is in the object of faith, which in salvation is Jesus Christ.

The work of Jesus Christ on the Cross was for everyone, but it is only applied to those who desire to come to God through Jesus Christ.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life.

Salvation is conditional on belief in Christ.
merit is in the object of the faith? Like I have faith there are aliens, for example, so therefore the merit is in the aliens not my faith?

I don't understand that...




Quote:
The entire article is about hell.
The article is ALL about hell... I said hell is not even in the bible.
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Old 05-11-2010, 01:09 AM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,725,440 times
Reputation: 263
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Acts 16:31 Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Why didn't you quote all of Acts 16:31?
They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household."

John 3:16 - Yes, those who believe have eternal life, which means to know God and His Son Jesus. John 17:3 (not BHFT words): "Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent."
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Old 05-11-2010, 01:10 AM
 
3,448 posts, read 2,592,588 times
Reputation: 478
Quote:
Originally Posted by stargazzer View Post
Hell is illogical.
In order for hell to exist the great creator must....
contemplate the existence and suggested eternity of unspeakable slaughter.
My creator does not.....contemplate such.
Does yours..?
Well then, who is your God ? Perhaps he has imagined forks of red.
Part 2 by Stargazzer :

All those who fail to live in the goodness of recognition and hope of virtue in their lives will cease to exist .
As, their self arrogance will be reflected in "non purpose" as it is
in their life with others.
Others who are willing and rightfully due the charity of their neighbor.

Hell , would extend purpose to those with no purpose
Therefore, "Hell is illogical". Stargazzer
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