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Old 05-11-2010, 09:43 AM
 
Location: RV Park
7,543 posts, read 11,568,193 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
...after salvation, there is an entire realm of doctrine that God expects the believer to learn.
God desires that one to know HIM - HE is the WAY, TRUTH, and the LIFE!! It's not a stack of books, a set of ordinances, a set doctrine - all these come as byproducts - but the focus and source is HIM!!

Don't we see that He wants us to come as little children, fully depending on Him for everything??? Our truth, our faith, our meat - if we would simply go to Him and ask that His heart be revealed to us.

Otherwise, we remain God-stalkers - learning as much as we can about Him, but never truly knowing Him.
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Old 05-11-2010, 09:43 AM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,723,456 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
Why didn't you quote all of Acts 16:31?
They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household."
Mike, will you answer the question I posted last night, please?
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Old 05-11-2010, 11:16 AM
 
Location: On a road heaven bound !
10,290 posts, read 8,050,417 times
Reputation: 17783
Quote:
Originally Posted by little elmer View Post
God desires that one to know HIM - HE is the WAY, TRUTH, and the LIFE!! It's not a stack of books, a set of ordinances, a set doctrine - all these come as byproducts - but the focus and source is HIM!!

Don't we see that He wants us to come as little children, fully depending on Him for everything??? Our truth, our faith, our meat - if we would simply go to Him and ask that His heart be revealed to us.

Otherwise, we remain God-stalkers - learning as much as we can about Him, but never truly knowing Him.
Amen.... little elmer!!
This is soooooo true, especially your last sentence.
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Old 05-11-2010, 12:01 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,207,476 times
Reputation: 892
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
It is the clear revelation of the Scriptures that you reject. And do you charge as well that Jesus' mind was twisted in hate and anger? It is He who warned more than any other of the realities of hell. Here is the issue that mankind faces...

John 3:36 He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.
Jesus never warned about hell, he in fact never even uttered the word hell, something which you refuse to even admit ... He warned the Israelites about the judgment coming on them using the analogy of Gehenna. The word Gehenna is found 12 times throughout the scriptures ... Only in the gospels and in James.

The purpose for the judgment of Gehenna was in order that God might have mercy on all through the rejection of Christ by Israel and his death and resurrection.

Only you cannot see that, you are as blind to the real purpose of God in Christ as the Israelites were when they rejected him because he didn't fit their idea of who the Christ(messiah) would and or should be.

The truth is you are not serving Christ, you are serving a bastardized deformation of who Christ truly is. You are serving a twisted maligned interpretation of who Christ is. You are serving hate and fear and death and Satan(the adversary of humanity), just as the pharisees did in the time of Christ, and you just cant see it. You cant see the forest for the tress and so you preach that everlasting evil and death will have victory over most of creation.

Death and evil and sin will in fact be swallowed up in victory, and will be no more. But you just cant see it. Though your ET camp is already loosing ground, and will soon be a thing of the past. Even you will eventually join us in praising God and singing the name of Christ with all of creation for his love and mercy for all in the end. Even you will finally pray for mercy in shame for your perpetrating the lie of the everlasting victory of sin and death and hell(grave) and all the works of the devil.

Its just a matter of time ...




Selah ...

Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 05-11-2010 at 12:21 PM..
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Old 05-11-2010, 12:35 PM
 
964 posts, read 717,527 times
Reputation: 393
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
So much for your version of the "good news."
This slays me as well. The gospel , the 'good news' according to ET'ers. What exactly is it? The vast majority of mankind burns forever without any chance of escape. THIS is good news?

Satan gets 85% of mankind, Christ gets 15%. But to ET'ers, this is still victory. Sheesh. I myself believed this lie for 30 years.

To those who still believe in ET, ask yourself why it seems your not growing in the Spirit and where your joy in the Lord is.

You'll have neither as long as you still believe in this satanic garbage. Impossible. If you say otherwise, I say your lying or in denial. Do you think God will bless you when you go your merry way knowing (in your mind) that the vast majority are going to an eternal cookout, and they're on the menu?
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Old 05-11-2010, 02:24 PM
 
3,448 posts, read 2,584,962 times
Reputation: 478
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
Jesus never warned about hell, he in fact never even uttered the word hell, something which you refuse to even admit ... He warned the Israelites about the judgment coming on them using the analogy of Gehenna. The word Gehenna is found 12 times throughout the scriptures ... Only in the gospels and in James.

The purpose for the judgment of Gehenna was in order that God might have mercy on all through the rejection of Christ by Israel and his death and resurrection.

Only you cannot see that, you are as blind to the real purpose of God in Christ as the Israelites were when they rejected him because he didn't fit their idea of who the Christ(messiah) would and or should be.

The truth is you are not serving Christ, you are serving a bastardized deformation of who Christ truly is. You are serving a twisted maligned interpretation of who Christ is. You are serving hate and fear and death and Satan(the adversary of humanity), just as the pharisees did in the time of Christ, and you just cant see it. You cant see the forest for the tress and so you preach that everlasting evil and death will have victory over most of creation.

Death and evil and sin will in fact be swallowed up in victory, and will be no more. But you just cant see it. Though your ET camp is already loosing ground, and will soon be a thing of the past. Even you will eventually join us in praising God and singing the name of Christ with all of creation for his love and mercy for all in the end. Even you will finally pray for mercy in shame for your perpetrating the lie of the everlasting victory of sin and death and hell(grave) and all the works of the devil.

Its just a matter of time ...




Selah ...
Above is a sound statement. Will add , that there will always be pretend
Hitlers who will grab at anything based in FEAR to propogate there twisted
idea to become a leader.
Real Leaders do not look to be leaders, they are uncovered.
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Old 05-11-2010, 04:44 PM
 
20,323 posts, read 15,683,103 times
Reputation: 7441
Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
These articles are horribly misinformed and perpetuate the myths of "hell".

There are no places in the bible that say hell is a place of "outer darkness" or say that hell is a place where people gnash their teeth. If I am mistaken, show me.
Regarding the phrase 'there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth,' it is indeed descriptive of the eternal fire.

Matthew 13:40 ''Therefore just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age (reference to the end of the Tribulation when Christ returns at the Second Advent and casts unbelievers off the earth as per Matthew 24:36-41 and 25:31-46). 41) ''The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they shall gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness, 42 ) and will cast them into the furnace of fire; in that place there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

The one's who commit lawlessness in verse 41 are the same ones mentioned n Matthew 7:23 to whom Christ will say, ''And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS. This last verse harkens back to Matt 7:13,14 which refers to those who enter destruction by the wide gate and the broad way.

Jesus will never say to a believer that He never knew them. John 10:14 ''I am the good shepherd; and I know My own, and My own know Me.

Matthew 13:49-50 speaks to this as well. ''So it will be at the end of the age; the angels shall come forth, and take out the wicked from among the righteous, 50) and will cast them into the furnace of fire; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

These are unbelievers who have survived to the end of the Tribulation and who will not enter into the kingdom of heaven, but will be cast into the eternal fire.

The furnace of fire of Matthew 13:50 is the very same eternal fire of Matthew 25:41 which has been prepared for the devil and his angels and into which Jesus Christ will order the accursed ones-unbelievers, who will go away into eternal punishment as per Matthew 25:46.

And there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.


As for the phrase, 'the outer darkness,' that also refers to the eternal fire.

In Luke 13:20 Jesus asks what He shall compare the kingdom of God to. In verse 24 He says ''Strive to enter by the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able. This compares with Matthew 7:13,14 which speaks of entering by the narrow gate.

Now read carefully Luke 13:23-28 And someone said to Him, ''Lord, are there just a few who are being saved?'' And He said to them, 24) ''Strive to enter by the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able. 25) ''Once the head of the house gets up and shuts the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock on the door, saying, 'Lord, open up to us!' then He will answer and say to you, 'I do not know where you are from.' 26) ''Then you will begin to say, 'We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets'; 27) and He will say, 'I tell you, I do not know where your are from, DEPART FROM ME, ALL YOU EVILDOERS.'28) ''There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth there when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but yourselves being cast out.

The Luke 13:23-28 passage compares with the other passages mentioned above, and the ones being cast out in verse 28 are being cast out into the outer darkness (though the words outer darkness are not specified).

The passages that tell of 'the outer darkness' (Matt 8:12; 22:13; and 25:30) are a reference to hell.


The following link goes into much more detail about this.

The ā€œOuter Darknessā€: Heavenā€™s Suburb or Hell? | Bible.org - Worlds Largest Bible Study Site


Note also, that in Jude 1:6 Tartarus, which is Not the lake of fire and is not hades, but rather, is the temporary place of confinement for the group of fallen angels that infiltrated the human race in Gen 6 which resulted in the Nephilim; is described as the place where the 'angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day.

And in 2 Peter 2:4 'For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into Tartarus and committed them to pits of darkness, reserved for judgment.

The word 'Tartarus is not found in Jude 6 but is the same place as described in 2 Peter 2:4 where the word 'Tartarus' IS used. 1 Peter 3:8 also speaks of Tartarus although not by name.

And then there is Jude 13 which speaks of the wandering stars, for whom the black darkness has been reserved forever.

The phrases 'there will be gnashing of teeth,' and 'the outer darkness' are just two of a number of decriptive terms that are used for hell. The lake of fire.
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Old 05-11-2010, 05:06 PM
 
20,323 posts, read 15,683,103 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
Mike, will you answer the question I posted last night, please?
I just now noticed the question. I think we went over this once already, some time ago. It might have been someone else though.

Acts 16:30 and after he (the jailer) brought them out, he said, ''Sirs, what must I do to be saved?''

Acts 16:31 And they (Paul and Silas) said, ''Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you shall be saved, you and your household.


The statement presumes that each individual member of the jailers household makes a personal decision to believe in Christ and will therefore be saved.

And as it says in Acts 16:32...

Acts 16:32 And they (Paul and Silas) spoke the word of the Lord to him together with all who were in his house.

As the passage states, Paul and Silas spoke the Gospel to everyone in the jailers household, and they each made a personal decision to believe in Christ for salvation and so the entire household was saved.

I assume that's what you were going for since I haven't yet seen your original question.
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Old 05-11-2010, 05:07 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,385,346 times
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Psalm 88:6. Thou hast laid me in the lowest pit, in darkness, in the deeps. David

(I think he got out of the lowest pit and darkness, though.)

Much flowery language in the Bible!
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Old 05-11-2010, 05:13 PM
 
Location: SC Foothills
8,830 posts, read 9,759,499 times
Reputation: 58198
[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Regarding the phrase 'there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth,' it is indeed descriptive of the eternal fire.
No, it's not. Nowhere in these scriptures does it say "eternal" anything. You see that?

Quote:
Matthew 13:40 ''Therefore just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age (reference to the end of the Tribulation when Christ returns at the Second Advent and casts unbelievers off the earth as per Matthew 24:36-41 and 25:31-46). 41) ''The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they shall gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness, 42 ) and will cast them into the furnace of fire; in that place there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Where does it say that it is "hell" or that it is eternal? This is just the "refining fire".....God's consuming refining fire that all must go through who did not know Jesus. Spiritual, not literal.

Quote:
The one's who commit lawlessness in verse 41 are the same ones mentioned n Matthew 7:23 to whom Christ will say, ''And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS. This last verse harkens back to Matt 7:13,14 which refers to those who enter destruction by the wide gate and the broad way.
Again, no mention of hell or eternity.....depart to where? Not hell, obviously. Harkens back? That's rich how you can connect something to nothing.

Quote:
Jesus will never say to a believer that He never knew them. John 10:14 ''I am the good shepherd; and I know My own, and My own know Me.
You're absolutely right, but what has that got to do with hell?

Quote:
Matthew 13:49-50 speaks to this as well. ''So it will be at the end of the age; the angels shall come forth, and take out the wicked from among the righteous, 50) and will cast them into the furnace of fire; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Again, no mention of an eternal hell. This is referring to God's spiritual refining fire.


Quote:
The furnace of fire of Matthew 13:50 is the very same eternal fire of Matthew 25:41 which has been prepared for the devil and his angels and into which Jesus Christ will order the accursed ones-unbelievers, who will go away into eternal punishment as per Matthew 25:46.

And there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
You have definitely ADDED the "eternal" part to those scriptures......it never says that. Only the devil will go away into punishment, and whether that is eternal is still not made clear. Do some research on "eternal" and it's meaning in the Greek.


Quote:
As for the phrase, 'the outer darkness,' that also refers to the eternal fire.
NO it does not!! Come on Mike, can you not see what you are doing here?

Quote:
In Luke 13:20 Jesus asks what He shall compare the kingdom of God to. In verse 24 He says ''Strive to enter by the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able. This compares with Matthew 7:13,14 which speaks of entering by the narrow gate.

Now read carefully Luke 13:23-28 And someone said to Him, ''Lord, are there just a few who are being saved?'' And He said to them, 24) ''Strive to enter by the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able. 25) ''Once the head of the house gets up and shuts the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock on the door, saying, 'Lord, open up to us!' then He will answer and say to you, 'I do not know where you are from.' 26) ''Then you will begin to say, 'We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets'; 27) and He will say, 'I tell you, I do not know where your are from, DEPART FROM ME, ALL YOU EVILDOERS.'28) ''There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth there when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but yourselves being cast out.
AGAIN, no mention of anything being "hell" or eternal. This is getting old.

Quote:
The Luke 13:23-28 passage compares with the other passages mentioned above, and the ones being cast out in verse 28 are being cast out into the outer darkness (though the words outer darkness are not specified).

The passages that tell of 'the outer darkness' (Matt 8:12; 22:13; and 25:30) are a reference to hell.
Exactly!! You said it yourself....no mention of "outer darkness" or "hell" or "eternal". And the passages that do tell of outer darkness are not referrring to "hell"......you're making that up.


Quote:
The phrases 'there will be gnashing of teeth,' and 'the outer darkness' are just two of a number of decriptive terms that are used for hell. The lake of fire.
No, they are not Mike. How do you get that these are referring to hell or the lake of fire? Can you not see how way off base you really are? Amazing. I didn't see it either for many years, so I'll give you a break. You'll see it eventually, God willing.
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