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Old 05-13-2010, 03:01 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,701,299 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Who ever said it is? The promise, the reward is just that, for what we do IN THIS LIFE.

It is not of US.
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Old 05-13-2010, 03:01 PM
 
Location: Nashville, TN
2,031 posts, read 2,696,495 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
I kind of wonder if you are being silly.....
Was this an excuse to get out of answering my question?
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Old 05-13-2010, 03:10 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,727,059 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
I am very aware of it, and who is speaking?.....an elected saint. I said all people, for all time. I am certain God's crafts His elect, for His purposes on earth.

And even if He does knit each and every person together (which the scripture does not denote for the wicked), if that persons denies His Son, the most sacred of all sacrifices, His wrath is justified, so sayeth the scriptures.
That's laughable to me that you would think God only knit together a few. I understand why you might choose to believe this because it's unthinkable that a loving God would knit someone together in their mother's womb, "choose," a few to love, and throw away the rest to burn forever in torment. I don't knit, but I cross-stitch and I've yet to through any into the fire. Surely God loves people more than I like colorful cloth pictures.
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Old 05-13-2010, 03:30 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,393,870 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CantWait2Leave View Post
Was this an excuse to get out of answering my question?
I'm sorry, CantWait2Leave.

I just think that these questions have been answered so beautifully in the past.

Jesus HAD to die to release us into immortality. He had to save (salvage) us! We are NOT born with immortality! Pagan myth, that one is.

Otherwise, we are with no hope of a resurrection, as the SADucees believed.

Dead. Kaput. END. FIN. FINITO.

Jesus asked the lady who was crying over her relative's death, "Why are you crying, woman?" (basically)

He Has the KEYS to the grave, and He WILL OPEN THOSE GATES to the cemetery! Those people rotting out there all over the earth will be RELEASED!

HE WAS THE FIRST! He released us from the spell! Death was our punishment! But, no more!

Can I hear a Hallelujah!!!!

Last edited by herefornow; 05-13-2010 at 03:52 PM..
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Old 05-13-2010, 05:21 PM
 
1,711 posts, read 1,569,543 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CantWait2Leave View Post
He's already saved everyone so how is Jesus necessary anymore?
1. I for one do not believe that everyone is already saved.
2. Even for those who are already born again "God... worketh in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure" so Christ is still at work.
3. Aside from those two points, even you believe that at some point in time, every person who will ever be saved will be saved. Do you actually believe that Christ will become unnecessary at that time?
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Old 05-13-2010, 08:51 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,303,983 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
That's laughable to me that you would think God only knit together a few. I understand why you might choose to believe this because it's unthinkable that a loving God would knit someone together in their mother's womb, "choose," a few to love, and throw away the rest to burn forever in torment. I don't knit, but I cross-stitch and I've yet to through any into the fire. Surely God loves people more than I like colorful cloth pictures.
Your choice to deny the straightforward message of salvation. It is your choice to believe contradictory of the scriptures that clearly depict Christ and God elected certain individuals to be a new Creation and do their work for Him here on earth. One must profess, IN THIS LIFE, to become a NEW CREATION and have their sins forgiven.
Be especially advised of 1 Corinthians 3 for your ministry.
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Old 05-13-2010, 08:55 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,303,983 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
It is not of US.
You speak in riddles and private interpretations. You have not once provided this thread with anything constructive to say except for your ad hom comebacks that have ZERO relevance. I will request your posts to be deleted as they are irrelevant to the discussion from this point forward unless you care to add to the discussion contextually.

Folks, when someone posts a link to an article like in this thread for example, and asks for an exegetical comeback, the expectation is to address the chosen parts of the article you want to debate, and counter them. Otherwise, your opinion, is just a presumption, without any scriptural foundation.
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Old 05-13-2010, 08:56 PM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,487,442 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Your choice to deny the straightforward message of salvation. It is your choice to believe contradictory of the scriptures that clearly depict Christ and God elected certain individuals to be a new Creation and do their work for Him here on earth. One must profess, IN THIS LIFE, to become a NEW CREATION and have their sins forgiven.
Be especially advised of 1 Corinthians 3 for your ministry.
Sciota, if we, who believe in this life due to God choosing us, make up a body of believers who will be the only ones ever to be saved out of humanity, then, pray tell me, who is it that we are going to be heading up in the Christ in the heavens and on the earth in the future?
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Old 05-14-2010, 03:36 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,303,983 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Sciota, if we, who believe in this life due to God choosing us, make up a body of believers who will be the only ones ever to be saved out of humanity, then, pray tell me, who is it that we are going to be heading up in the Christ in the heavens and on the earth in the future?
Heading up? I don't follow.... my apologies..could you elaborate?
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Old 05-14-2010, 04:06 AM
 
Location: US
26,473 posts, read 14,061,506 times
Reputation: 1609
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Universalism?, Colossians 1:20

Belief in universal salvation is almost as old as Christianity itself and may be associated with early Gnostic teachers. The first clearly universalist writings, however, date from the Greek church fathers, most notably Clement of Alexandria, his student Origen, and Gregory of Nyssa. Universalism was taught in the School that Origen presided over at Alexandria in the extreme form that all fallen beings, not excluding the Devil and his angels, who do not repent in this world, shall pass through prolonged chastisement in the world to come. In the end, through these sufferings and the instruction of superior spirits, they will undergo a change and be brought to bliss. Origen's views were strongly opposed by Augustine of Hippo and were condemned by the Council of Constantinople (A.D. 543). At the Reformation the sect known as Anabaptists adopted this view as regards both men and devils, and John Calvin wrote a tract condemning it.

This doctrine is congenial to human nature. Most unbelievers think that when someone dies they go to heaven. What do people usually say when they lose a loved one? "We know they're in a better place now." This doctrine goes back to what the serpent had to say to our first parents: "Ye shall not surely die." God says that sin leads to death, but we don't want to believe that, we'd rather believe the serpent.

Universalists all quote Scripture texts in support of their views, and by the manipulation of texts removed from their context, they make out a plausible case for the positions they hold. There are many verses that use "all" and "world" in relation to redemption. When looking at these verses, we must keep in mind the primary rule of hermeneutics, the "analogy of faith" - the rule that Scripture is to interpret Scripture. This means that no part of Scripture can be interpreted in such a way as to render it in conflict with what is clearly taught elsewhere in Scripture.

http://bereanbiblechurch.org/transcripts/colossians/1_20 (broken link).

David Curtis refutes many verses that UR uses to support their view. More at link.
Did you know that the Anabaptists later became the Amish and the Mennonite sects?...
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