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Old 05-14-2010, 10:41 AM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,723,032 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
He knit together six million Jews and sent them to the gas chambers. But then again, the Bible prophesied what was going to happen to the Jews due to their unbelief and rejection of Christ. It also makes clear what happens to unbelievers after their physical deaths. It is what it is. This is God's way. Your denial of the truth won't make it go away.

You think you can figure God out 100%? You say things like "loving God would never do something like that". You insult God by even suggesting you can figure him out. You will never fully understand him, and you look silly pretending to fully understand him.

Why does loving God knit together anyone and make them suffer pain, poverty, hunger, disease and death here on earth? Why not just knit them into spirits and take them to heaven? Or why not turn earth into a paradise without pain and death? Christ already paid the price, right? Isn't that what you keep saying? It's a done deal. I know the answer to the question, but it wouldn't' make any sense if I thought like you.
Since you think God "sent them to the gas chambers" do you think Hitler deserves to burn in fire for eternity for carrying out what God ultimately did? Just curious.

No, I don't think I can figure God out 100%, and I don't appreciate you saying that I "insult God by even suggesting" I can figure him out or that I "look silly" for "pretending to fully understand him." I never said anything remotely similar to that. You're talking to someone who lost a 15-year-old son. Wouldn't you think I wonder every day why this had to be? I don't know why, but I do know that anything bad that happens on this earth is temporary, and that God loves all of us and He has a plan that is all for GOOD in the end.

IMO from reading your posts, you have never grasped the concept of what burning in fire forever would really mean. I say this because you continue to compare it to earthly pain or physical death, when nothing else in the world could ever compare to burning with no end possible. I posted this on another thread, but you didn't comment on this part:
Look at it this way. When someone suffers from a disease, a caregiver might inflict all kinds of pain on a patient or loved one. They might stick them with needles, move them around in painful ways for physical therapy, clean wounds, rip sticky tape off their skin, administer medicines that make them nauseated, etc. The purpose of the temporary pain and misery is for healing. God allows bad stuff to happen now, but in the end it's all for His higher purpose - to heal us spiritually.
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Old 05-14-2010, 10:41 AM
 
Location: Italy
6,387 posts, read 5,114,658 times
Reputation: 866
There was a gulf between the two which needed a bridge. Once the last mite is paid, they will be set free.
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Old 05-14-2010, 11:02 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,540 posts, read 31,936,781 times
Reputation: 9415
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
Since you think God "sent them to the gas chambers" do you think Hitler deserves to burn in fire for eternity for carrying out what God ultimately did? Just curious.
If you believe God is in control, then you would believe he allowed it to happen. Hitler will burn in hell, unless he gave his life to God, which I very much doubt.

Quote:
I can figure him out or that I "look silly" for "pretending to fully understand him." I never said anything remotely similar to that.
If it wasn't you, then it was the other URers who like to tell us how they cried in the shower and suddenly understood the true character of God. Yes, it sounds silly, because no one fully understands God.

Quote:
IMO from reading your posts, you have never grasped the concept of what burning in fire forever would really mean. I say this because you continue to compare it to earthly pain or physical death, when nothing else in the world could ever compare to burning with no end possible
Nope, I never compared them as equal, I used earthly pain , suffering and death to make my point of what God does and will do because of mens sin, but if you still don't get the point, then you probably never will. I have explained it many times: if God punished the entire mankind on earth because of Adams sin, what makes you think he will back down on what he says he will do to us after our physical deaths? If he didn't lie about punishement on earth, what makes you think he will lie about the punishement after life? The answer: he will not.
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Old 05-14-2010, 11:36 AM
 
Location: Italy
6,387 posts, read 5,114,658 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
If you believe God is in control, then you would believe he allowed it to happen. Hitler will burn in hell, unless he gave his life to God, which I very much doubt.



If it wasn't you, then it was the other URers who like to tell us how they cried in the shower and suddenly understood the true character of God. Yes, it sounds silly, because no one fully understands God.



Nope, I never compared them as equal, I used earthly pain , suffering and death to make my point of what God does and will do because of mens sin, but if you still don't get the point, then you probably never will. I have explained it many times: if God punished the entire mankind on earth because of Adams sin, what makes you think he will back down on what he says he will do to us after our physical deaths? If he didn't lie about punishement on earth, what makes you think he will lie about the punishement after life? The answer: he will not.
here's what some think is the reason God will back down: Christ. The wages of sin is death, not eternal torment.

Blessings,
brian
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Old 05-14-2010, 12:57 PM
 
Location: US
26,333 posts, read 13,962,188 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahigherway View Post
I don't agree. "If you love only those who love you, what reward have ye? Do not sinners the same?"

Personally, I think many Christians reject UR because it implys that they are no better than other sinners. It seems to be a pride thing: "I'm in, you're out." Many people, when you tell them that all will go to heaven, reply, "well if that's true, I might as well keep on sinning!" That's the "Christian" heart speaking!

Why a Christian would not rejoice in hearing that ALL sinners will be taken into the spiritual enjoyment of God, is beyond me...

Blessings,
Brian
It says what it says...'they will know us by our love for one another'...Now, who is 'they'?...and who is 'us'?...and who is 'one another'?...And who is the author of this letter addressing?...non-believers?...or is it addressed to believers?...you are taking two verses out of context...in John 13:35 He was addressing the disciples...and telling them that if you have love for each other, and the non-believing world sees this, by what i have preached they have heard, the love you show towards one another will identify you as my disciples, as opposed to other sects...it is an identifying characteristic...your other out of context verse is Luke 6:32-35-
Luk 6:32 For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.
Luk 6:33 And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.
Luk 6:34 And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.
Luk 6:35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

i rejoice because God chose me, He sought me...not the other way around...In Luke there is a comparison between sinners and saints...this still does not say that you should love non-believers...it is addressing the way that believers are treating each other...loveing only those that love them back, etc, etc...even sinners do the same...so, how can they show that they are His disciples?...by showing love for one another...it is like Masons...if one Mason show up on the doorstep of another Mason and it is confirmed that they are brothers and the other needs a place to lay his head for the night the host has an obligation to his brotherly love to afford him such...Masons are to love those outside, but, they are to love their brothers inside especially...that way those on the outside can notice the difference...they are loving those that they don't even know, because they are true brothers...

Last edited by Richard1965; 05-14-2010 at 01:35 PM..
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Old 05-14-2010, 01:19 PM
 
Location: Nashville, TN
2,031 posts, read 2,689,143 times
Reputation: 528
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahigherway View Post
I don't agree. "If you love only those who love you, what reward have ye? Do not sinners the same?"

Personally, I think many Christians reject UR because it implys that they are no better than other sinners. It seems to be a pride thing: "I'm in, you're out." Many people, when you tell them that all will go to heaven, reply, "well if that's true, I might as well keep on sinning!" That's the "Christian" heart speaking!

Why a Christian would not rejoice in hearing that ALL sinners will be taken into the spiritual enjoyment of God, is beyond me...

Blessings,
Brian
I can't speak for others, but for ME, this is beyond ridiculous. Most of my family is going to hell. You think I want UR to be false so that I can be prideful and I can go to heaven and my grandmother, aunts, uncles and cousins are in hell? You really think this is what I desire? This couldn't be farther from the truth, but they are choosing to live their lives how they want. Just a few weeks ago, my grandmother (not a Christian) laughed about hell and joked about going to it because she doesn't care about sin. I can't FORCE my grandma to love Christ! I talk with her about God and it seems like it's all a joke to her.

If hell wasn't real, which it is, I wouldn't go back to living a sinful and dishonest life. My desire is to please the Lord! It doesn't have anything to do with hell.

A Christian should NOT rejoice in hearing that ALL sinners will be taken into the spiritual enjoyment (do you mean heaven?) of God because the Bible makes it crystal clear this isn't going to happen. I'm not going to rejoice in an unbiblical heresy.
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Old 05-14-2010, 01:22 PM
 
Location: Nashville, TN
2,031 posts, read 2,689,143 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
The parable of the Rich man and Lazarus...why would the Rich man want Lazarus to go back and speak to his brothers if he knew he and his brothers were going to end up in bliss eventually?...It would be obvious that he would want himself and his brothers to be cleansed in order to enter heaven so this would be a good thing...
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Old 05-14-2010, 01:40 PM
 
Location: US
26,333 posts, read 13,962,188 times
Reputation: 1599
Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
I understand very well what that verse is saying.

But, whatever happened to Jesus' commandments? LOVE your ENEMIES!! Do GOOD to those that persecute you and hate you! TURN the other cheek!

When Peter and the other disciples showed ANY signs of violence, such as calling fire down on people or cutting off ears and what-have-you, Jesus got upset. He said they didn't understand. He did not tell them to PHYSICALLY fight anyone! They were eventually chased and martyred. They NEVER chased and martyred others for going against the truth. Well, except for Saul before he became Paul; and of course we all know before he became Paul, he was a zealot who thought he understood God and his ways.

For God so LOVED the WORLD!

It's kind of hard for the world to hear the GOOD NEWS when we drop bombs on them, and I don't think they can hear us very well over the gunfire.

Propping up corrupt politicians and regimes isn't such a good idea either.

And about that little bump in the road some years back, burning people at the stake. Just a wee bit nasty. Christ-like? Nah.

The hypocrisy and forked tongue of "Christianity" is quite disgusting. I'm wondering if it's time is about up.....
Do you actually know what 'turn the other cheek' means to us Jews?...
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Old 05-14-2010, 01:46 PM
 
Location: US
26,333 posts, read 13,962,188 times
Reputation: 1599
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
He knit together six million Jews and sent them to the gas chambers. But then again, the Bible prophesied what was going to happen to the Jews due to their unbelief and rejection of Christ. It also makes clear what happens to unbelievers after their physical deaths. It is what it is. This is God's way. Your denial of the truth won't make it go away.

You think you can figure God out 100%? You say things like "loving God would never do something like that". You insult God by even suggesting you can figure him out. You will never fully understand him, and you look silly pretending to fully understand him.

Why does loving God knit together anyone and make them suffer pain, poverty, hunger, disease and death here on earth? Why not just knit them into spirits and take them to heaven? Or why not turn earth into a paradise without pain and death? Christ already paid the price, right? Isn't that what you keep saying? It's a done deal. I know the answer to the question, but it wouldn't' make any sense if I thought like you.

come on! All together, now!

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If you say this mantra enough times, that is all God will be, our warped sense of what love is is not God's sense of what love is....it is not the only attribute that God posesses...
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Old 05-14-2010, 01:49 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,291,776 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
I see you had no answer for how a loving God could burn forever those who he knit together in the womb.
I gave you an answer, you just didn't like the interpertation because it does not line up with your belief system. The Psalm you supplied is David speaking, a saint, so your premise is eisegesis to say the least.

Again, I ask, does the scripture show a wicked man being knit together in the womb by God?

No.

Audience and writer relevance.

Last edited by sciotamicks; 05-14-2010 at 02:05 PM..
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