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Old 05-14-2010, 02:28 PM
 
Location: RV Park
7,544 posts, read 11,579,456 times
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Nebuchadnezzar is an excellent example. After God had exacted judgment on him, he was then able to see who God is - and worship Him as king over all:

And at the end of the days I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up mine eyes unto heaven, and mine understanding returned unto me, and I blessed the most High, and I praised and honored Him that liveth for ever, whose dominion is an everlasting dominion, and His kingdom is from generation to generation:
And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and He doeth according to His will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay His hand, or say unto Him, What doest thou?
At the same time my reason returned unto me; and for the glory of my kingdom, mine honor and brightness returned unto me; and my counselors and my lords sought unto me; and I was established in my kingdom, and excellent majesty was added unto me.
Now I Nebuchadnezzar praise and extol and honor the King of heaven, all whose works are truth, and His ways judgment: and those that walk in pride He is able to abase... (Dan 4:34-37)

Like He did to Nebuchadnezzar.
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Old 05-14-2010, 02:30 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,693,976 times
Reputation: 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
I am speaking about those who say god is love to the exclusion of Hell being real...they state a loving god would never do such a thing...Look at the OT, it is repleat with horrors that God perpetrated on His creation for His own good purposes...i mean horrors according to us modern 'enlightened' folk...

True, the statement "a loving God will not do that" does not mean anything.

But we can determine through evidence the possibility that hell is not real and that God does not send anyone there.

Hell not being in scripture in the first place is a good spot to start.
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Old 05-14-2010, 02:37 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,388,654 times
Reputation: 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
I am speaking about those who say god is love to the exclusion of Hell being real...they state a loving god would never do such a thing...Look at the OT, it is repleat with horrors that God perpetrated on His creation for His own good purposes...i mean horrors according to us modern 'enlightened' folk...

Do you know why He brought those horrors down on those people???!

Their leadership brought them into violence, perversion, sacrificing, USURY!

The Cry of Sodom is not exactly what you imagine it to have been; although, it is a part of it.

You know what, though? The Old Testament is FILLED to the BRIM with God's vengeful acts on HIS OWN PEOPLE! Not the heathen! Tell me why God kept torching and killing His own people. Most of Western Civilization is GUILTY, overwhelmingly, of these same things.

We are in an age of grace, presently. Just because you are not feeling the wrath of God at the moment, doesn't mean it won't happen; the afterlife might be interesting for some people.

And be careful before pointing the finger outward. Deception often happens to those that don't think it is happening to them.
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Old 05-14-2010, 02:38 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,724,658 times
Reputation: 263
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
I gave you an answer, you just didn't like the interpertation because it does not line up with your belief system. The Psalm you supplied is David speaking, a saint, so your premise is eisegesis to say the least.

Again, I ask, does the scripture show a wicked man being knit together in the womb by God?

No.

Audience and writer relevance.
Good grief. If God didn't knit someone together in the womb, who do you think did, the devil? Do you think the devil has the power to create human life? Or do you believe that a fetus is just a blob of tissue?
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Old 05-14-2010, 02:42 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,724,658 times
Reputation: 263
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
I have explained it many times: if God punished the entire mankind on earth because of Adams sin, what makes you think he will back down on what he says he will do to us after our physical deaths? If he didn't lie about punishement on earth, what makes you think he will lie about the punishement after life? The answer: he will not.
He didn't lie. Here's what He said about Adam's sin:

1 Corinthians 15:
21For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.
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Old 05-14-2010, 02:42 PM
 
Location: US
26,408 posts, read 14,007,478 times
Reputation: 1603
Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
You know what, Finn_Jarber? God did not send 6 million Jews to the gas chamber. A confused, occult-ridden, angry, VENGEFUL MAN sent them to the gas chamber!

Did God allow this to happen? YES! Do many of the Jews that went to the gas chambers believe that God allowed this? YES!

Who and what keeps people around the world starving? Who and what keeps this planet in the condition that it is in?

HUMANITY! POLITICS! GREED! VENGEFUL MEN AND WOMEN!

Revelation 11:18. Now the time of your wrath has come. It is time to judge those that DESTROY THE EARTH!

But, at the end of all things, something good will come out of the evil here, although it is TRULY hard to imagine sometimes!

Who do you think will we want ruling the Universe in the end?!
Pro 16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

You people are missing a whole lot of OT attributes of God that would totally through your view out the window because you focus on particular parts of scripture and not the whole so you receive a skewed view of God....
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Old 05-14-2010, 02:43 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,388,654 times
Reputation: 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Pro 16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

You people are missing a whole lot of OT attributes of God that would totally through your view out the window because you focus on particular parts of scripture and not the whole so you receive a skewed view of God....

Check out my above post.....
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Old 05-14-2010, 02:53 PM
 
Location: US
26,408 posts, read 14,007,478 times
Reputation: 1603
Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
Do you know why He brought those horrors down on those people???!

Their leadership brought them into violence, perversion, sacrificing, USURY!

The Cry of Sodom is not exactly what you imagine it to have been; although, it is a part of it.

You know what, though? The Old Testament is FILLED to the BRIM with God's vengeful acts on HIS OWN PEOPLE! Not the heathen! Tell me why God kept torching and killing His own people. Most of Western Civilization is GUILTY, overwhelmingly, of these same things.

We are in an age of grace, presently. Just because you are not feeling the wrath of God at the moment, doesn't mean it won't happen; the afterlife might be interesting for some people.

And be careful before pointing the finger outward. Deception often happens to those that don't think it is happening to them.
Why does everyone use Sodom?...that is not the only calamity to occur...God set his own people to war...God instructed those entering the Promised Land to slaughter every man women and child and even the animals and the alters and idols...basically to purify the place of heathen influence...oh, and that from a loving God...there was smashing of babies on rocks...and taking of women to wife that were the spoils of war against their will...I am not deceived, i once was, because as a young Christian i was told the meaning of scripture by those that were of the Faith longer than i, i trusted that they were telling me the Truth...but, i used what i was taught to argue the bible with others and a lot of the time it was non-believers that out me to shame regarding knowledge...so, i undertook it to study the word and take it for what it says in black and white...with reason and logic...
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Old 05-14-2010, 02:56 PM
 
Location: Nashville, TN
2,031 posts, read 2,692,748 times
Reputation: 528
Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
You know what, Finn_Jarber? God did not send 6 million Jews to the gas chamber. A confused, occult-ridden, angry, VENGEFUL MAN sent them to the gas chamber!

Did God allow this to happen? YES! Do many of the Jews that went to the gas chambers believe that God allowed this? YES!

Who and what keeps people around the world starving? Who and what keeps this planet in the condition that it is in?

HUMANITY! POLITICS! GREED! VENGEFUL MEN AND WOMEN!

Revelation 11:18. Now the time of your wrath has come. It is time to judge those that DESTROY THE EARTH!

But, at the end of all things, something good will come out of the evil here, although it is TRULY hard to imagine sometimes!

Who do you think will we want ruling the Universe in the end?!
I thought you didn't believe in free will? If we don't have free will then God willed for all this to happen? How can you blame Hitler or greedy men and women if they had no choice because there isn't free will?
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Old 05-14-2010, 03:05 PM
 
Location: US
26,408 posts, read 14,007,478 times
Reputation: 1603
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
He didn't lie. Here's what He said about Adam's sin:

1 Corinthians 15:
21For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

There are two resurrections, so yes, by adam all are dead, and through Christ are all made alive...Resurrection means to be made alive...The first is a joyous occasion...but not the second...all will be made alive in Christ...some to eternal life, others to eternal death...the verse does not indicate salvation or eternal life...it just says made alive...If there is a first resurrection it is logical to assume there is a second...
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