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Old 05-14-2010, 05:31 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,206,041 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
It says in the end all Israel will be saved....and 11:32 says all but, chapter 11 is speaking about the house of Israel...not the whole world...don't worry, i got the pieces and they fit fine...
So only all of Israel will be saved, but not all of the other people who are not Israeli?

So is God a respecter of persons, is God racist?

1Ti 2:4-6
For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.


God will have all men saved and come to a knowledge of the truth, not just Israelis. Christ paid the ransom for all me, not just Israelis ... This fact will be testified in due time. For God is the savior of all men, especially those that believe.
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Old 05-14-2010, 05:39 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,384,512 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
that does not negate what Christ said...He was sent to the Lost Sheep Of The House Of Israel...Not the World...Was He lying?...

you seem to through out of context verses out there...i, most of the time try to go through at least a chapter in order to present a cohesive point regarding scripture...what the author was trying to say...you are hanging on these little threads...which really mean nothing when taken out of context...

What TRADITION cannot do is make EVERY VERSE fit into their doctrine!

Every single denomination out there fits verses into it's version of the truth and, in doing so, strangely interprets much scripture!

Do you know that Luther could not even figure out chunks of the Bible?

How much of the Bible is still a mystery, do you think?

The Jews were an extremely educated people, and not just regarding the scriptures! Yet, even they missed the point!

Do you really think we know any better?! Religious pride is NOT a good thing!

God will not be mocked!

BY THEIR FRUITS YOU SHALL KNOW THEM: LOVE, JOY, PEACE, KINDNESS, LONG-SUFFERING!

The MEEK will inherit the earth!

I have said it before, and I will say it again and again until I am blue in the face: Christians are in for a BIG SURPRISE! When they find out what they have been tied to, all hell WILL break loose! And I am not talking the Dante's myth hell, either.

Last edited by herefornow; 05-14-2010 at 07:00 PM..
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Old 05-14-2010, 06:48 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,384,512 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
It says in the end all Israel will be saved....and 11:32 says all but, chapter 11 is speaking about the house of Israel...not the whole world...don't worry, i got the pieces and they fit fine...
Please tell me how the Jews of Jesus' generation are going to be in bigger trouble than Sodom at the judgment?

And when is Sodom going to be restored? And what is the Queen of the South going to say?

I've got hundreds more questions, but I will wait for an answer on those. And please don't give me traditional answers. They are pretty silly.....Give me a biblical answer.

Revelation 5:13

NIV Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, singing: "To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!"

And, since Mike555 wanted to point out that it is not SINGING in the KJV like it is in the NIV I'll post the KJV below. (I don't know if that makes a HUGE difference, whether it is singing or saying, but I do know that it does NOT say every creature is screaming)

KJV:

And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

I can find HUNDREDS of verses from our scripture like that! Something big is going on!!

John 1:29 "Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!

Here are a few from: Universalism is Not in the Bible


Romans 11:32: "For God has consigned ALL to disobedience, that he may have mercy on ALL." God chooses this person or nation and hardens that person or nation not to save a select group called "the elect" as Calvinists would have us believe, but so that "he may have mercy on all."

Romans 11:36:
"For from him and through him and to him are all things. To him be glory forever. Amen." Look at each part of this declaration one at a time. "For from him ... are all things." This obviously means that all things have their origin in Him. He created every thing. "Through him ... are all things" Everything is sustained by Him. "To him are all things." As all things had their origin in Him, so they will return to Him. To Him be glory forever!! Amen!

Romans 14:11:
"As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God." The margin of the ESV says, "Or shall give praise." The NASB translates it: "Every tongue shall give praise to God." The CEV: "Everyone will kneel down and praise my name!" The words are self-explanatory. Everyone will praise God!

Last edited by herefornow; 05-14-2010 at 07:10 PM..
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Old 05-14-2010, 10:30 PM
 
20,322 posts, read 15,674,976 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
Please tell me how the Jews of Jesus' generation are going to be in bigger trouble than Sodom at the judgment?

And when is Sodom going to be restored? And what is the Queen of the South going to say?

I've got hundreds more questions, but I will wait for an answer on those. And please don't give me traditional answers. They are pretty silly.....Give me a biblical answer.

Revelation 5:13

NIV Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, singing: "To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!"

And, since Mike555 wanted to point out that it is not SINGING in the KJV like it is in the NIV I'll post the KJV below. (I don't know if that makes a HUGE difference, whether it is singing or saying, but I do know that it does NOT say every creature is screaming)
I never mentioned the KJV. I told you that it is not singing in the Greek. The original lanquage. The word is LEGONTAS-SAYING. Strong's Number G3004.

http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineI...NTpdf/rev5.pdf

And here is where I said it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
It's not a matter of admitting anything. It's a matter of being doctrinally correct.




To the contrary. Revelation 12:7 And there was war in heaven, Michael and his angels waging war with the dragon. And the dragon and his angels waged war. 8) and they were not strong enough, and there was no longer a place for them in heaven. 9) And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him. 10) And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying,

''Now the salvation, and the power, and the kingdom of our God and the authority of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren has been thrown down, who accuses them before our God day and night.
(This takes place midway through the Tribulation.)

One third of the angels rebelled against God with Satan and remained in rebellion, and will be thrown into the eternal fire with Satan.

Matt. 25:41 ''Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels.

The character of God would have prompted Him to provide an opportunity for the fallen angels to be restored to a relationship with Him. They rejected it and will join Satan in the lake of fire whose final imprisonment in that place is recorded in Revelation 20:10. No reasonable person would deny this.

One third of the angels rebelled with Satan.


Revelation 12:4 And his tail swept away a third of the stars of heaven, and threw them to the earth
.


Revelation 5:13 And every created thing which is in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all things in them, I heard SAYING (LEGONTAS-Strong's number G3004. Singing is not implied),

''To Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, be blessing and honor and glory and dominion forever and ever.''

The fact that reference is made to those under the earth is not to be dismissed. It is a reference to the unsaved dead and also to the fallen angels that are currently imprisoned in Tartarus as per 2 Peter 2:4.

With reference to those who are under the earth, Christ's defeated enemies must acknowledge His glory.



For those who are interested, it would benefit you greatly to obtain the 8 volume 'Systematic Theology' by Dr. Lewis Sperry Chafer, founder and first president of Dallas Theological Seminary.
The following is the rest of your post.

Quote:
KJV:

And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

I can find HUNDREDS of verses from our scripture like that! Something big is going on!!

John 1:29 "Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!

Here are a few from: Universalism is Not in the Bible


Romans 11:32: "For God has consigned ALL to disobedience, that he may have mercy on ALL." God chooses this person or nation and hardens that person or nation not to save a select group called "the elect" as Calvinists would have us believe, but so that "he may have mercy on all."

Romans 11:36:
"For from him and through him and to him are all things. To him be glory forever. Amen." Look at each part of this declaration one at a time. "For from him ... are all things." This obviously means that all things have their origin in Him. He created every thing. "Through him ... are all things" Everything is sustained by Him. "To him are all things." As all things had their origin in Him, so they will return to Him. To Him be glory forever!! Amen!

Romans 14:11:
"As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God." The margin of the ESV says, "Or shall give praise." The NASB translates it: "Every tongue shall give praise to God." The CEV: "Everyone will kneel down and praise my name!" The words are self-explanatory. Everyone will praise God!
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Old 05-14-2010, 10:34 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,384,512 times
Reputation: 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
I never mentioned the KJV. I told you that it is not singing in the Greek. The original lanquage. The word is LEGONTAS-SAYING. Strong's Number G3004.

www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/rev5.pdf

And here is where I said it.



The following is the rest of your post.
Oops. Sorry, Mike555. Forgive me, please.

Last edited by herefornow; 05-14-2010 at 11:13 PM..
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Old 05-15-2010, 12:13 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,291,776 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
Good grief. If God didn't knit someone together in the womb, who do you think did, the devil? Do you think the devil has the power to create human life? Or do you believe that a fetus is just a blob of tissue?
Never said any of that. You are. You are imposing again. Stop doing that. David is giving God glory for choosing him, forming him, a saint, elected, into the promise,...it is not some verse proclaiming just because David is knitted together, so must all men? That is eisegesis.

Stick to the theme of the scriptures. Election. New Jerusalem. Saints, servants, His people, Israel, etc etc....all apart from those that ARE NOT.
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Old 05-15-2010, 12:15 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,291,776 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
YES.

What I can accept and what you will tell me it is will probably be two different things.

Yes God is Love, God is righteous, God is the judge of us all and the wicked too.


I will be judged, you will be judged, and it is all through Love because God cannot act separate from his nature.
I agree with you, except, the scriptures are clear when God is judging the wicked, there is no love involved. Only wrath.
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Old 05-15-2010, 12:35 AM
 
5,739 posts, read 4,589,424 times
Reputation: 4161
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
I agree with you, except, the scriptures are clear when God is judging the wicked, there is no love involved. Only wrath.

God IS love.
Does God step outside of Himself?
Me thinks... NO.

Everything our Majestic Father does is ROOTED in love, my friend.

One day you're going to realize this.
And you will be exceedingly glad.

Fight it all you want..
You're fighting a losing battle.

His love WILL bring you to your knees.
It's THAT majestic.
It's THAT awesome.
It's THAT BEAUTIFUL.

peace... and have a nice weekend.

I'm off to bed and then off to MD in the AM.

Have a great weekend all.

sparrow
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Old 05-15-2010, 12:53 AM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,384,512 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Never said any of that. You are. You are imposing again. Stop doing that. David is giving God glory for choosing him, forming him, a saint, elected, into the promise,...it is not some verse proclaiming just because David is knitted together, so must all men? That is eisegesis.

Stick to the theme of the scriptures. Election. New Jerusalem. Saints, servants, His people, Israel, etc etc....all apart from those that ARE NOT.


I'll tell you what the theme of scripture is: LOVE!

Let me ask you something? If some (insert worst enemy here) got hold of you, pinned you down in front of a very large crowd, spit on you, mocked you, and then nailed you to a tree, and, when, after suffering for a VERY long time, you asked for a drink they gave you vinegar, would you start crying; Father, FORGIVE THEM!!

Jesus was weeping over the darkness that this world is in. He DESPERATELY wanted people to see how much LOVE He has to give the world!

But, the RELIGIOUS of His day kept the people under them from seeing His love and kept them out of the Kingdom of Light, making them all twofold the children of destruction. They were not salvaged (saved) at that time, and they have been suffering greatly in this present age and have not been forgiven yet (world to come). They were sent off to Gehenna (hell) in A.D. 70. What a horrible thing!

And that generation of Jews will have a worse time at judgment than Sodom! But, will He forgive them like His Son asked?

From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live.

God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us.


Yeshua died for the ENTIRE world. He was THE LAMB! That is true LOVE!

The themes throughout the ENTIRE scriptures are LOVE and MERCY!

The Pharisees did NOT understand this!!

Father, FORGIVE THEM! Father, FORGIVE THEM!! Father, FORGIVE THEM!! How many times until it sinks in!

The Roman soldiers, the Jews, the Gentiles; ALL of our sins held Him there.

They do not know what they are doing!!

Father, FORGIVE THEM!!

What do you think He will do?

Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, singing: "To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!"
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Old 05-15-2010, 03:11 AM
 
Location: Italy
6,387 posts, read 5,114,658 times
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Sciotamicks and Richard1965,
"By this therefore shall the iniquity of Jacob be purged; and this is all the fruit to take away his sin; when he maketh all the stones of the altar as chalkstones that are beaten in sunder, the groves and images shall not stand up." Isa. 27:9.

When the scriptures talk about Israel, they are almost always referring to the heart of man. God is not racist, He is not impartial. Israel is spiritual, the inner man of the heart. Zion is also the mount of God, within man. He's not interested in real estate, and He's not a politician. We need to look at the broader picture. God will restore, and the restoring has already begun 2000 years ago. Read Romans 5 (ALL of it). God put man into sin so that He could put ALL men into Christ. God is not limited to the pages of the Bible. He can save at any hour, it doesn't matter. He calls things that aren't as though they were. Don't underestimate His power to save you and I and yes even Hitler. That is the GOOD News not the message of the hireling preachers who want your money.

READ the verses you quoted in Romans 11 again. God has put us ALL into sin in order to have mercy upon us. God blinds and God makes us to see. The work is His, not ours, and we should rejoice to see that God will restore all things, even Egypt! We mustn't be afraid of God's love to all people. It's a Good thing, not Evil.

Nothing is impossible for Him.

Blessings to you,
Brian
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