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Old 06-06-2010, 07:42 AM
 
Location: US
26,511 posts, read 14,107,223 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
I am absolutely not adding to what the scriptures say! Shame on you for accusing me of such things!

WHAT WERE THE ELECT SUPPOSED TO BE DOING??????

What is their purpose on this planet?

They did not do their job; not in the past and not presently.

When I started figuring these things out, I had a bit of a meltdown. I wondered, TRULY, who in the world is actually saved and not deceived out there????

And if it is so few that are being salvaged (saved), how in the world do we have SO MANY verses of praise coming from the ENTIRE UNIVERSE in the end?

How do those puzzle pieces fit?

Check out Romans 11:31 again: Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.

Romans 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

Start researching all the Old Testament prophecy on Sodom being restored, on Jerusalem being restored, the Queen of the South.

Did you know the JEWS of Jesus' time are in bigger trouble in the JUDGMENT than SODOM!

THOSE PIECES WILL START TO FIT!
Romans 11:32 is speaking of the Jews...not the whole world...
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Old 06-06-2010, 07:47 AM
 
Location: US
26,511 posts, read 14,107,223 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
Please tell me how the Jews of Jesus' generation are going to be in bigger trouble than Sodom at the judgment?

And when is Sodom going to be restored? And what is the Queen of the South going to say?

I've got hundreds more questions, but I will wait for an answer on those. And please don't give me traditional answers. They are pretty silly.....Give me a biblical answer.

Revelation 5:13

NIV Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, singing: "To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!"

And, since Mike555 wanted to point out that it is not SINGING in the KJV like it is in the NIV I'll post the KJV below. (I don't know if that makes a HUGE difference, whether it is singing or saying, but I do know that it does NOT say every creature is screaming)

KJV:

And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

I can find HUNDREDS of verses from our scripture like that! Something big is going on!!

John 1:29 "Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!

Here are a few from: Universalism is Not in the Bible


Romans 11:32: "For God has consigned ALL to disobedience, that he may have mercy on ALL." God chooses this person or nation and hardens that person or nation not to save a select group called "the elect" as Calvinists would have us believe, but so that "he may have mercy on all."

Romans 11:36: "For from him and through him and to him are all things. To him be glory forever. Amen." Look at each part of this declaration one at a time. "For from him ... are all things." This obviously means that all things have their origin in Him. He created every thing. "Through him ... are all things" Everything is sustained by Him. "To him are all things." As all things had their origin in Him, so they will return to Him. To Him be glory forever!! Amen!

Romans 14:11: "As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God." The margin of the ESV says, "Or shall give praise." The NASB translates it: "Every tongue shall give praise to God." The CEV: "Everyone will kneel down and praise my name!" The words are self-explanatory. Everyone will praise God!
Look at revelations 5:13 again...you are missing something....11:32 is talking about the Jews...11:36 says nothing regarding things returning to Him...you are adding to the words with your assumptions...

Rom 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

14:11 is taken out of context and can certainly be construed as such as you say.

Rom 14:12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

14:12 The author is speaking to christians when he says 'us', because the author no longer considers himself part of the world, so he is not including the world in that pronoun.

Rom 14:13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.

14:13 Clarifies who the author is addressing, 'his brother's way'...Christians do not call 'Brother' those that are yet of the world.

Rom 14:14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

14:14 The author is stating a Truth here, that since we have liberty in Christ, that nothing is unclean...

Rom 14:15 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.

14:15 Again, he is speaking to the believer regarding his what?...BROTHER...you do not call a non-believer a brother...

Last edited by Richard1965; 06-06-2010 at 08:07 AM..
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Old 06-06-2010, 07:49 AM
 
Location: East Coast
30,410 posts, read 20,147,586 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Romans 11:32 is speaking of the Jews...not the whole world...
28As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable. 30Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, 31so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now[h] receive mercy as a result of God's mercy to you. 32For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
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Old 06-06-2010, 08:21 AM
 
Location: US
26,511 posts, read 14,107,223 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
28As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable. 30Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, 31so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now[h] receive mercy as a result of God's mercy to you. 32For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
Again, he is speaking about the Jews....
Rom 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

Even the original greek says them all and it refers back to the Jews being spoken of...if you look at 28 who are the patriarchs?...the chosen of God...not all mankind...he is saying that the Jews are our enemies on account of the Gospel but we should still love them on account of the Covenant that God made with Abraham and the other Patriarchs...and why did He conclude them over to unbelief and bring in the Gentiles?...to drive the Jews to jealousy...Like i said, Romans 11 is speaking of the Jews, not the whole world...you have changed the words in verse 32 to support your theology...shame on you...
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Old 06-06-2010, 08:36 AM
 
Location: East Coast
30,410 posts, read 20,147,586 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Again, he is speaking about the Jews....
Rom 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

Even the original greek says them all and it refers back to the Jews being spoken of...if you look at 28 who are the patriarchs?...the chosen of God...not all mankind...he is saying that the Jews are our enemies on account of the Gospel but we should still love them on account of the Covenant that God made with Abraham and the other Patriarchs...and why did He conclude them over to unbelief and bring in the Gentiles?...to drive the Jews to jealousy...Like i said, Romans 11 is speaking of the Jews, not the whole world...you have changed the words in verse 32 to support your theology...shame on you...
Verse 31 clearly tells us that it's all (jew and gentile) That they(jew) too may receive mercy as a result of God's mercy to you(gentile) .

In otherwords all of Israel is receiving all the same mercy that all the gentiles received . God is not a respecter of persons .

Do you really believe in universal reconciliation for the jew but deny it to the gentile ?

Last edited by pcamps; 06-06-2010 at 08:50 AM..
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Old 06-06-2010, 09:17 AM
 
Location: Florida
58,797 posts, read 32,255,767 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Yea...it is not just of God to send unbelievers to an eternal Hell, but, i guess they believe it was just to condemn the whole human race because of one sin of Adam and Eve...double standards?...
Maybe not double standards, but something they overlooked when they created this "religion of logic" which used logic to figure out what God might and might not do. They don't understand it is not a matter lof logic.
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Old 06-06-2010, 11:21 AM
 
Location: On a road heaven bound !
10,290 posts, read 8,076,141 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Maybe not double standards, but something they overlooked when they created this "religion of logic" which used logic to figure out what God might and might not do. They don't understand it is not a matter lof logic.
Amen..... Finn_Jarber !!

Luke 18:8
"I tell you that He will bring about justice for them quickly. However, when the Son of Man comes, will He find faith on the earth?"

Yup, logic kills faith big times!
Many are turning from "Faith" to their own logic, reasoning and this has caused a distorting of God's precious word.

Mark 11:22
And Jesus answered saying to them, " Have faith in God.

When one doubts the only other alternative it seems would be.... logic, a reasoning that justifies the unbelief, fear of the truth hidden in deep in the heart and then faith is lost....
Jesus said, "Have faith in God" ! Not, "Have logic in God !!

Habakkuk 2:4
"Behold, as for the proud one, his soul is not right within him; but the righteous will live by his faith.

Mark 10:15
"Truly I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child will not enter it at all."

Interesting......
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Old 06-06-2010, 11:44 AM
 
Location: East Coast
30,410 posts, read 20,147,586 times
Reputation: 2119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Yea...it is not just of God to send unbelievers to an eternal Hell, but, i guess they believe it was just to condemn the whole human race because of one sin of Adam and Eve...double standards?...
Condemning someone to eternal torment and death passing to all men(Romans 5 : 12)are 2 entirely different things, with 2 entirely different conclusions.
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Old 06-06-2010, 01:04 PM
 
Location: US
26,511 posts, read 14,107,223 times
Reputation: 1614
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Verse 31 clearly tells us that it's all (jew and gentile) That they(jew) too may receive mercy as a result of God's mercy to you(gentile) .

In otherwords all of Israel is receiving all the same mercy that all the gentiles received . God is not a respecter of persons .

Do you really believe in universal reconciliation for the jew but deny it to the gentile ?

No it does't...

Rom 11:26 And soall Israel shall be saved (speaking about the Jews): as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they (speaking about the Jews) are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
Rom 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance (This is talking about the covenant made with the Jews).
Rom 11:30 For as ye in times past have not believed God (This is talking about the Gentiles), yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief (This is talking about the Jews):
Rom 11:31 Even so have these also now not believed (This is talking about the Jews), that through your mercy they (The Jews) also may obtain mercy.
Rom 11:32 For God hath concluded them (The Jews) all in unbelief (This is talking about the Jews), that he might have mercy upon all.
Rom 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
Rom 11:34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?
Rom 11:35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?
Rom 11:36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

You are preaching a false gospel and Paul said to let that person be accursed...
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Old 06-06-2010, 01:15 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,433,887 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by Latte'Chic View Post
Amen..... Finn_Jarber !!

Luke 18:8
"I tell you that He will bring about justice for them quickly. However, when the Son of Man comes, will He find faith on the earth?"

Yup, logic kills faith big times!
Many are turning from "Faith" to their own logic, reasoning and this has caused a distorting of God's precious word.

Mark 11:22
And Jesus answered saying to them, " Have faith in God.

When one doubts the only other alternative it seems would be.... logic, a reasoning that justifies the unbelief, fear of the truth hidden in deep in the heart and then faith is lost....
Jesus said, "Have faith in God" ! Not, "Have logic in God !!

Habakkuk 2:4
"Behold, as for the proud one, his soul is not right within him; but the righteous will live by his faith.

Mark 10:15
"Truly I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child will not enter it at all."

Interesting......
Logic kills faith? On what planet is logic a bad thing?

Logically I know from the caution sign that the bridge is out, but dang it... that would kill my faith that the bridge is just fine..

Logic is what people use to reason what is true and what is false. Yet when it comes to religion, people shouldn't use logic?

and why did you use a verse in Mark to show an answer to a verse in Luke?
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