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Old 05-12-2010, 12:03 AM
 
Location: Nashville, TN
2,031 posts, read 2,698,910 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Hmm, let's see, God tells us to forgive people who offend us 70 x 7 times every day (Matt.18:22) yet the ETer wants us to believe that God won't do for His enemies what He wants us to do for ours?
What is wrong with this ETer picture?
You are forgetting that there is an unpardonable sin. It's spoken about many times.

LUKE 12:10, "And everyone that says a word against the Son of Man, that will be forgiven; But he that blasphemes against The Holy Spirit will not be forgiven"

MATTHEW 12: 31-32 "Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven men, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. And whoever shall speak a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever shall speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age, or in the age to come".

MARK 3:29, "Whoever blasphemes against The Holy Spirit will never have forgiveness, but is guilty of everlasting sin."
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Old 05-12-2010, 12:08 AM
 
20,411 posts, read 15,780,702 times
Reputation: 7645
Quote:
Originally Posted by CantWait2Leave View Post
UR is all based on emotions. You originally questioned hell because it doesn't make you feel good and Satan got a foothold on you which is why you stopped believing in it. This is what Satan does when people don't have a solid Biblical foundation and they aren't being guided by Him. I know exactly why I believe what I believe, but thanks for telling me I don't. I believe it because it's TRUE. You believe God led you to learn about UR, but I believe Satan led you to believe that lie when you started questioning the Truth. I've prayed and I still do pray for God to show me His Truth and it's clearly obvious to me that hell is indeed real. I'm not a puppet and I've researched both sides of the argument asking the Lord to show me His Truth and He has. Emotions don't determine truth; therefore, just because I don't understand why God does what He does doesn't mean it's not true. God does many things that I don't understand. Why does He cause millions to die in earthquakes, why does He bless others financially and others die of hunger? I could go on and on. No one fully understands the Lord because we aren't Him. We are learning day by day and one day we will understand His ways. We need to be exegetes when reading the Bible. I have the Holy Spirit inside of me so there is no need to feel sorry for me. I will not believe what you show because it is a heresy. I've been there and done that. It's a lie from Satan. I don't believe God is deceiving His True followers. As universalists like to say, one day you will see.

Good post!!!
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Old 05-12-2010, 01:42 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,430,291 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by CantWait2Leave View Post
UR is all based on emotions. You originally questioned hell because it doesn't make you feel good and Satan got a foothold on you which is why you stopped believing in it.
When your uncle tries to sneak a feel and you FEEL disgust does that mean you shouldn't rely om that feeling and run away? Or are emotions useless? Questioning something because it DOESN'T FEEL GOOD (like your uncle grabbing at you) is a great indicator it isn't GOOD.

You can twist that to say that not all things that FEEL GOOD (sensory feelings now not emotional) are Good... but that is hardly the same thing. A negative emotional response to something is usually a GOOD THING TO FOLLOW. You walk down a dark alley and get a negative emotional response telling you not to go further... LISTEN...

But somehow "hell" can NOT feel good emotionally and that is not a huge red flag? If it disgusts you that your loved ones will burn forever in agony for eternity and this produces a negative emotional response... then run from it!
UR is based on emotions?

Quote:
This is what Satan does when people don't have a solid Biblical foundation and they aren't being guided by Him. I know exactly why I believe what I believe, but thanks for telling me I don't. I believe it because it's TRUE. You believe God led you to learn about UR, but I believe Satan led you to believe that lie when you started questioning the Truth.
Blame it on satan... that guy, I swear. He's always wanting people to trust God more and love each other more... Silly Satan!

Quote:
I've prayed and I still do pray for God to show me His Truth and it's clearly obvious to me that hell is indeed real. I'm not a puppet and I've researched both sides of the argument asking the Lord to show me His Truth and He has. Emotions don't determine truth;
It's good litmus for truth though. If it gives you the creeps... shouldn't you run from it? And if imagining yourself in Hell doesn't give you the creeps.. well, I think that is sad.

Quote:
therefore, just because I don't understand why God does what He does doesn't mean it's not true. God does many things that I don't understand. Why does He cause millions to die in earthquakes, why does He bless others financially and others die of hunger? I could go on and on. No one fully understands the Lord because we aren't Him. We are learning day by day and one day we will understand His ways. We need to be exegetes when reading the Bible. I have the Holy Spirit inside of me so there is no need to feel sorry for me. I will not believe what you show because it is a heresy. I've been there and done that. It's a lie from Satan. I don't believe God is deceiving His True followers. As universalists like to say, one day you will see.
It sounds as if you decided God showed you ET... I can tell already that you dismissed it without guidance because there is no way you can truly study ET vs. UR with an open heart and fail to see that there is no hell.

Well.. that is my opinion anyway.
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Old 05-12-2010, 01:46 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,430,291 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by CantWait2Leave View Post
You are forgetting that there is an unpardonable sin. It's spoken about many times.

LUKE 12:10, "And everyone that says a word against the Son of Man, that will be forgiven; But he that blasphemes against The Holy Spirit will not be forgiven"

MATTHEW 12: 31-32 "Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven men, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. And whoever shall speak a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever shall speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age, or in the age to come".

MARK 3:29, "Whoever blasphemes against The Holy Spirit will never have forgiveness, but is guilty of everlasting sin."
What is interesting is what took place in the passage before this. Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit entails calling the indwelling of the holy spirit within someone of the devil. They said that Jesus was "of the devil" when it was really the holy spirit working in him.

How many times have we seen someone say that so and so is "of the devil" and not of the holy spirit. If in fact, they ARE of the holy spirit then didn't the unpardonable sin just happen? So what else do you think would qualify as blaspheming against the Holy Spirit?

And didn't you just state that URers are "of the devil"... what if it turns out that URers are "of the holy spirit" and yet think differently about salvation? Then what? ARE you then guilty of blaspheming the holy spirit and doomed to hell?

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Old 05-12-2010, 01:53 AM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,228,517 times
Reputation: 892
Quote:
Originally Posted by CantWait2Leave View Post
UR is all based on emotions. You originally questioned hell because it doesn't make you feel good and Satan got a foothold on you which is why you stopped believing in it. This is what Satan does when people don't have a solid Biblical foundation and they aren't being guided by Him. I know exactly why I believe what I believe, but thanks for telling me I don't. I believe it because it's TRUE. You believe God led you to learn about UR, but I believe Satan led you to believe that lie when you started questioning the Truth. I've prayed and I still do pray for God to show me His Truth and it's clearly obvious to me that hell is indeed real. I'm not a puppet and I've researched both sides of the argument asking the Lord to show me His Truth and He has. Emotions don't determine truth; therefore, just because I don't understand why God does what He does doesn't mean it's not true. God does many things that I don't understand. Why does He cause millions to die in earthquakes, why does He bless others financially and others die of hunger? I could go on and on. No one fully understands the Lord because we aren't Him. We are learning day by day and one day we will understand His ways. We need to be exegetes when reading the Bible. I have the Holy Spirit inside of me so there is no need to feel sorry for me. I will not believe what you show because it is a heresy. I've been there and done that. It's a lie from Satan. I don't believe God is deceiving His True followers. As universalists like to say, one day you will see.
Anyone who doesn't question what they have been taught to believe by tradition, especially when their consciences do not line up with what they are taught, are puppets indeed. Just like Islamic extremists who have been programed to believe that they will go to a mythical hell if they do not commit terrorist acts or that they will go straight to heaven if they do.

They are controlled by propaganda and programming and when they don't listen to their consciences and question what they are being taught they commit terrorist acts, just like "Christians" did in the dark ages after the doctrine of ET became orthodox dogma ...

You are doing the same thing on a spiritual level, destroying peoples faith and peace by not allowing the spirit of God to speak to you through your conscience and heeding the false doctrines of the traditions of men which use fear to control the masses.

I have been a Christian all my life and my father was a preacher. I started studying the scriptures when i was six years old and i have studied most of the church fathers whom you obviously do not even know ... I have studied more about the development of Christianity throughout the centuries than most other Christians that i know, including my own father who went through many years of seminary.

I am confident that my knowledge of scripture and church history far surpasses yours. I doubt you are more founded in scriptures than i was when i came to understand the truth of these things.

Nevertheless, someone who is brainwashed usually isn't aware of it and cannot perceive their programming for what it is.

You don't know when or how the doctrine of ET even came into the Christian faith, or the earliest Christian writings which even support it or who the people where who are responsible for interpolating it into the original tenets of the faith to begin with. You obviously don't even care to know, because you are perfectly satisfied with believing the people you claim to love are going to suffer for ever regardless of what you say here in these forums.

So be it, one day you will come to a knowledge of the truth, and there is nothing you or anyone else can do to change the fact that God is the savior of all people, (not only of those that believe) especially of those that believe.




God bless ...
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Old 05-12-2010, 01:53 AM
 
Location: Nashville, TN
2,031 posts, read 2,698,910 times
Reputation: 528
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
When your uncle tries to sneak a feel and you FEEL disgust does that mean you shouldn't rely om that feeling and run away? Or are emotions useless? Questioning something because it DOESN'T FEEL GOOD (like your uncle grabbing at you) is a great indicator it isn't GOOD.

You can twist that to say that not all things that FEEL GOOD (sensory feelings now not emotional) are Good... but that is hardly the same thing. A negative emotional response to something is usually a GOOD THING TO FOLLOW. You walk down a dark alley and get a negative emotional response telling you not to go further... LISTEN...

But somehow "hell" can NOT feel good emotionally and that is not a huge red flag? If it disgusts you that your loved ones will burn forever in agony for eternity and this produces a negative emotional response... then run from it!
UR is based on emotions?


Blame it on satan... that guy, I swear. He's always wanting people to trust God more and love each other more... Silly Satan!


It's good litmus for truth though. If it gives you the creeps... shouldn't you run from it? And if imagining yourself in Hell doesn't give you the creeps.. well, I think that is sad.


It sounds as if you decided God showed you ET... I can tell already that you dismissed it without guidance because there is no way you can truly study ET vs. UR with an open heart and fail to see that there is no hell.

Well.. that is my opinion anyway.
Kat, you don't believe in Satan so I wouldn't expect you to understand what I'm saying. UR is based on emotions. Read the posts from those who believe in it. You are different from the rest because you don't believe in heaven either. At least you are consistent. It doesn't make sense to dismiss one thing (hell) and believe in another (heaven). How do they know that heaven hasn't been mistranslated? This is my problem with UR. They don't believe in something that makes them feel bad, hell, but believe in heaven because it feels good. Why would they question heaven when it seems so wonderful? Again, emotions.
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Old 05-12-2010, 02:12 AM
 
Location: Nashville, TN
2,031 posts, read 2,698,910 times
Reputation: 528
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
Anyone who doesn't question what they have been taught to believe, especially when their consciences do not line up with what they are taught, are puppets indeed. Just like Islamic extremists who have been programed to believe that they will go to a mythical hell if they do not commit terrorist acts or that they will go straight to heaven if they do.

They are controlled by propaganda and programming and when they don't listen to their consciences and question what they are being taught they commit terrorist acts, just like "Christians" did in the dark ages after the doctrine of ET became orthodox dogma ...

You are doing the same thing on a spiritual level, destroying peoples faith and peace by not allowing your the spirit of God to speak to you through your conscience and heeding the false doctrines of the traditions of men which use fear to control the masses.

I have been a Christian all my life and my father was a preacher. I started studying the scriptures when i was six years old and i have studied most of the church fathers whom you do not even know ... I have studied more about the development of Christianity throughout the centuries than most other Christians that i know, including my own father who went through many years of seminary.

I am confident that my knowledge of scripture and church history far surpasses yours. I doubt you are more founded in scriptures than i was when i came to understand the truth of these things.

Nevertheless, someone who is brainwashed usually isn't aware of it and cannot perceive their programming for what it is.

You don't know when or how the doctrine of ET even came into the Christian faith, or the earliest Christian writings which even support it or who the people where who are responsible for interpolating it into the original tenets of the faith to begin with. You obviously don't even care to know, because you are perfectly satisfied with believing the people you claim to love are going to suffer for ever regardless of what you say here in these forums.

So be it, one day you will come to a knowledge of the truth, and there is nothing you or anyone else can do to change the fact that God is the savior of all people, (not only of those that believe) especially of those that believe.




God bless ...
Head knowledge means nothing because it's not a guarantee that one has the Holy Spirit inside of them. There are many who have head knowledge and are so, so wrong. It reminds me of my best friend in high school who aced her tests in Bible class and knew way more than the Christians, yet didn't believe any of it. It was all head knowledge, but because that was all it was to her, she didn't apply any of it and didn't know the Lord. I still keep in touch with her and she's the same today as she was back then.

I am done with this because it really is pointless. It's just a circle that we go around and around over and over again. Just re-read the last sentence you wrote. There is a reason why "especially of those who believe" was put into Scripture. It completely refutes universalism, but of course, you won't understand that. The god of age blinds (2 Cor 4:4).

God bless you too and praying for you.

Last edited by CantWait2Leave; 05-12-2010 at 02:25 AM..
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Old 05-12-2010, 02:13 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,430,291 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by CantWait2Leave View Post
Kat, you don't believe in Satan so I wouldn't expect you to understand what I'm saying. UR is based on emotions. Read the posts from those who believe in it. You are different from the rest because you don't believe in heaven either. At least you are consistent. It doesn't make sense to dismiss one thing (hell) and believe in another (heaven). How do they know that heaven hasn't been mistranslated? This is my problem with UR. They don't believe in something that makes them feel bad, hell, but believe in heaven because it feels good. Why would they question heaven when it seems so wonderful? Again, emotions.
Well it is a popular place.. It seems everyone wants a ticket to heaven!

I don't believe in either as a place because I believe they are spiritual states. When I am wronged by someone and a great wave of peace flows over me so that I am able to love them.. it is the greatest feeling of bliss ever.. that is heaven.

However, when I perpetuate a fight because I refuse to stifle my ego.. I feel terrible. I spiritually burn with guilt over my behavior! That is hell.

I can't rightly believe in satan either because a spiritual being who is able to challenge a god would also be a god.. I am monotheistic and can't fathom a reason why such a person would exist so really I deny the concept of heaven, hell, satan, demons, and angels that Christians seem to have but I believe in the biblical concept of heaven, hell, satan, demons, and angels... (I think that is another thread altogether though)

Emotions can work for us or against us.. One extreme is no better than another... but to say that UR is based on emotions is a fallacy. It is no more based on emotions than the threat of eternal hell is based on the emotion of fear. You fear being thrown in eternal hell so you straighten your ways in order to avoid it. That is emotion as well. The problem is that Love casts out all fear so that if you truly trust in God and take advantage of the holy spirit then you would not have any fear. Without fear the threat of burning forever has no power to make someone straighten their ways...

Again, to say that UR is based on emotions is a fallacy. The same can be said about ET.
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Old 05-12-2010, 02:23 AM
 
Location: Nashville, TN
2,031 posts, read 2,698,910 times
Reputation: 528
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post

I can't rightly believe in satan either because a spiritual being who is able to challenge a god would also be a god.. I am monotheistic and can't fathom a reason why such a person would exist so really I deny the concept of heaven, hell, satan, demons, and angels that Christians seem to have but I believe in the biblical concept of heaven, hell, satan, demons, and angels... (I think that is another thread altogether though)

Emotions can work for us or against us.. One extreme is no better than another... but to say that UR is based on emotions is a fallacy. It is no more based on emotions than the threat of eternal hell is based on the emotion of fear. You fear being thrown in eternal hell so you straighten your ways in order to avoid it. That is emotion as well. The problem is that Love casts out all fear so that if you truly trust in God and take advantage of the holy spirit then you would not have any fear. Without fear the threat of burning forever has no power to make someone straighten their ways...

Again, to say that UR is based on emotions is a fallacy. The same can be said about ET.
Satan is a false god to some people. He isn't a real god because like you said, there only is one God. He loses in the end so him "challenging" God is rather stupid on his part.

I didn't become a Christian because I feared hell. I became a Christian when I realized what Jesus did for me and I wanted to follow Him forever. He is so worthy of praise. I am being 100% honest when I say this. I've never feared hell. Never. I knew I wasn't going there so there was no reason to fear it.
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Old 05-12-2010, 03:31 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,430,291 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by CantWait2Leave View Post
Satan is a false god to some people. He isn't a real god because like you said, there only is one God. He loses in the end so him "challenging" God is rather stupid on his part.
You've probably been asked this before but.. how does satan lose if he ends up taking down the majority of creation with him? Doesn't sound like he loses to me!

Quote:
I didn't become a Christian because I feared hell. I became a Christian when I realized what Jesus did for me and I wanted to follow Him forever. He is so worthy of praise. I am being 100% honest when I say this. I've never feared hell. Never. I knew I wasn't going there so there was no reason to fear it.
Yes.. you knew you weren't going there but what about everyone else? Don't you FEAR hell for others? Don't you wish that unbelieving aunt would see the truth and be saved from hell? Don't you fear for her eternal state?

There is fear in ET... what other reason is there for a place of eternal torture for people?
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