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Old 05-14-2010, 08:32 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
29,792 posts, read 47,704,290 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
Oops. Sorry. Good catch.

You wanted a reference. I gave you one. The ancient Hebrews did not bring in a bi-weekly paycheck. Theirs was an agricultural society.
Th efarmers and herdsmen you mean.

Obviously traders, craftsmen, cobblers, and tanners, were present and they were not included in it.



Quote:
... There is absolutely nothing you could possibly tell me to convince me that the law ... is not longer to be obeyed.
Even after all that Jesus did?

We have been given the entire New Testament and yet you refuse to be free of the Law?

That is sad.
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Old 05-14-2010, 08:54 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma
200 posts, read 211,316 times
Reputation: 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
I believe you are quite right. The tithe is not enforceable or relevant today.


However, the bible also says God loves a cheerful giver. That is what we are to be: cheerful (and generous, if that is an option) givers. Not unhappy and bankrupt tithers.

2 Cor 9:7 Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

I would expect that as Paul travelled around preaching he required some money for expenses, but people also gave him time, lodgings, and food to help with.

That means if you are struggling to make ends meet and have to choose between paying the mortgage & credit card or making a tithe, you should probably pay the mortgage & credit card first. There are plenty of other ways to give: volunteer your time, help your neighbor, even taking care of the kids, helping at school, etc.

On the other hand if the bills are paid and you have a financially stable life, you should be giving money to help the needy (and volunteering time and helping in other ways too).

This idea of 10% monetary giving is really just a "status" mark, when in reality we should always be helping and giving in every situation we encounter (which is not necessarily money related). For some people, giving 10% of their income is just not an option if they want to live. For others, they should be giving much more.
Legoman, I think you've finally given voice to what I've thought for so very long .

My family went through a tough time financially. I was reminded in a sermon that God would rebuke the devourer if we would tithe like we should. So, I did. Nothing changed. I was then admonished to give in the proper spirit (don't expect blessings in exchange) and very prayerfully tried to give as such. Things really started going down hill. Then I was reminded by my deacon that we should give and EXPECT blessings because God said to "test me on this. See if I don't increase your blessings, rebuke the devourer...


Expect, don't expect, expect? Certainly, our situation did not get any better, but I felt so guilty if I didn't give a full tithe. Some times, that money would have provided extra fuel for the cars, food, clothes for my kids...

So I'm quite skeptical of the whole tithing scenario. But it's heresy within my former denomination to say that you give what you can if you can.
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Old 05-14-2010, 09:44 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,825 posts, read 9,851,168 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
I see. So the Ten Commandments are obsolete, too, I guess?
Not when you're attempting to prove yourself worthy and become a god. The Ten Commandments will be used against you because you don't even follow J.Smith own revelation "be perfect"....not what you're doing and trying to "become it".
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Old 05-14-2010, 09:50 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,825 posts, read 9,851,168 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garyarnold View Post
I wish more churches/denominations worked like that.

I, personally, don't believe the scriptures support full-time paid ministers/pastors.
I do because God said called workers deserve their wages.
"the worker deserves his wages."

1 Timothy 5:18
For the Scripture says, "Do not muzzle the ox while it is treading out the grain," and "The worker deserves his wages."

Jesus' instructions to his disciples:

Luke 10:7
Stay in that house, eating and drinking whatever they give you, for the worker deserves his wages. Do not move around from house to house.
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Old 05-14-2010, 10:00 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,825 posts, read 9,851,168 times
Reputation: 1302
Quote:
Originally Posted by forest beekeeper View Post
Th efarmers and herdsmen you mean.

Obviously traders, craftsmen, cobblers, and tanners, were present and they were not included in it.





Even after all that Jesus did?

We have been given the entire New Testament and yet you refuse to be free of the Law?

That is sad.
How true, it's very sad.
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Old 05-14-2010, 10:22 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,309 posts, read 20,998,413 times
Reputation: 10008
Quote:
Originally Posted by forest beekeeper View Post
We have been given the entire New Testament and yet you refuse to be free of the Law?

That is sad.
Jesus said, "If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love." That's all I'm doing. I don't find it to be sad at all. I see it as a real privilege.

Last edited by Katzpur; 05-14-2010 at 10:41 PM..
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Old 05-14-2010, 10:24 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,309 posts, read 20,998,413 times
Reputation: 10008
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
Not when you're attempting to prove yourself worthy and become a god. The Ten Commandments will be used against you because you don't even follow J.Smith own revelation "be perfect"....not what you're doing and trying to "become it".
Honestly, twin.spin, you do such a miserable job of trying to be an authority on something you really know very little about. You really shouldn't waste your time. How about you worry about your life and I worry about mine?

Last edited by Katzpur; 05-14-2010 at 10:45 PM..
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Old 05-14-2010, 10:38 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,309 posts, read 20,998,413 times
Reputation: 10008
Quote:
Originally Posted by NCyank View Post
If we're talking about LDS then only the few at the very top get wealthy while the rest of the clergy do work for free.
Why would you make a statement like that? You clearly dislike my church, but does that give you license to fabricate any kind of nonsense that suits your fancy? The picture below is the home of the current President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Does it look like the home of a wealthy man to you?

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Old 05-14-2010, 11:20 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,825 posts, read 9,851,168 times
Reputation: 1302
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
Honestly, twin.spin, you do such a miserable job of trying to be an authority on something you really know very little about. You really shouldn't waste your time. How about you worry about your life and I worry about mine?
Katzpur,
If only you knew how wrong you are....

In this spiritual warfare, I never, never under estimate my adversary...nor should you.
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Old 05-14-2010, 11:25 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,825 posts, read 9,851,168 times
Reputation: 1302
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
Jesus said, "If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love." That's all I'm doing. I don't find it to be sad at all. I see it as a real privilege.
How about this commandment:

Matthew 5:48
"Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."

2 Corinthians 13:11
Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, ..... and the God of love and peace shall be with you.

Not perfect? Why not? Don't you want the God of love and peace that shall be with you?
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