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Old 05-11-2010, 05:02 PM
 
Location: Denver, Colorado U.S.A.
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This is the idea my parents got from their pastor. Do other believe this? I'll add that they are members of a mega church that is run by a family that lives lavish lifestyles and hides the finances of the church. They're also under investigation by the IRS, but my ignorant family has bought into this swindler lock, stock, and barrel.
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Old 05-11-2010, 06:19 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,260 posts, read 20,865,688 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by denverian View Post
This is the idea my parents got from their pastor. Do other believe this? I'll add that they are members of a mega church that is run by a family that lives lavish lifestyles and hides the finances of the church. They're also under investigation by the IRS, but my ignorant family has bought into this swindler lock, stock, and barrel.
"Tithing" simply means one-tenth. Nowhere does the Bible tell us how to comute what we are to pay tithing on. I personally tithe on my pre-tax income, but it's not because a church leader tells me I should. My husband tithes on his post-tax income, but it's not because a church leader tells him he should. The concept of tithing is sound biblical doctrine, but what constitutes a full tithing should be between the person paying it and the Lord, not between the person paying it and his pastor.

Last edited by Katzpur; 05-11-2010 at 06:30 PM..
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Old 05-11-2010, 06:27 PM
 
Location: Nashville, TN
2,031 posts, read 2,684,856 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
"Tithing" simply means one-tenth. There is no where in the Bible where we are specifically told one tenth of what? I personally tithe on my pre-tax income, but it's not because a church leader tells me I should. My husband tithes on his post-tax income, but it's not because a church leader tells him he should. The concept of tithing is sound biblical doctrine, but what constitutes a full tithing should be between the person paying it and the Lord, not between the person paying it and his pastor.
I agree with this. My husband and I tithe post tax because we feel this is what the Lord asks of us. My in-laws tithe on everything they receive including gifts for Christmas, birthdays, etc. I've never heard of anyone else doing this, but my in-laws feel that they are supposed to and it's between them and God so I don't see anything wrong with it. It's all God's anyways!

Last edited by CantWait2Leave; 05-11-2010 at 06:44 PM..
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Old 05-11-2010, 07:28 PM
 
2,981 posts, read 4,304,236 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by denverian View Post
This is the idea my parents got from their pastor. Do other believe this? I'll add that they are members of a mega church that is run by a family that lives lavish lifestyles and hides the finances of the church. They're also under investigation by the IRS, but my ignorant family has bought into this swindler lock, stock, and barrel.
Nope. The government stole it and I did not prosper or increase by it, and I am not tithing on what the government stole.
However, We believe in giving more than 10%, anyway, but we control where we give it and to whom we give it to bless them. We do not give it to a general fund anywhere, but give when our own hearts are stirred by the needs of those around us, in our lives.
And we do not "pay tithes" either, as everything we have is from God and belongs to God and we get to use it for our needs and for furthering the Gospel of Jesus as we see fit.
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Old 05-12-2010, 06:03 AM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
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Tithe: ten percent of the increase in your herds or harvests.

God gives increase to your herds and in the growth of your vines and trees, it is from that increase that the tithe was commanded..

When you exchange your time for money it is not an increase it is an exchange.

Also keep in mind that the first of the Ten Commandments forbids the engraving of images, making engraved images on coins into forbidden thigns. Later Jesus reminded folks of this when he was asked how to handle Roman coin.

The Bible commands the tithe.

Only Levite priests could collect tithes [there are no Levite priests today in the Christian church].

Only food products from the land were tithable.

The Bible never discusses money as a tithable commodity.
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Old 05-12-2010, 06:29 AM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,260 posts, read 20,865,688 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by forest beekeeper View Post
Tithe: ten percent of the increase in your herds or harvests.

God gives increase to your herds and in the growth of your vines and trees, it is from that increase that the tithe was commanded..

When you exchange your time for money it is not an increase it is an exchange.

Also keep in mind that the first of the Ten Commandments forbids the engraving of images, making engraved images on coins into forbidden thigns. Later Jesus reminded folks of this when he was asked how to handle Roman coin.

The Bible commands the tithe.

Only Levite priests could collect tithes [there are no Levite priests today in the Christian church].

Only food products from the land were tithable.

The Bible never discusses money as a tithable commodity.
As you have demonstrated, it is quite easy to justify one's way out of returning to the Lord 1/10th of what is already his anyway. I've never figured out why anyone would be so stingy as to want to do so, though.
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Old 05-12-2010, 06:31 AM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,427,722 times
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forest beekeeper, what do you make of Jesus telling how great it was that the widow cast the last mite she had for the synagogue. He said she gave more than the others because she gave out of her want. In other words, she was so poor that money she gave she really needed to feed herself but gave it anyway.
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Old 05-12-2010, 07:23 AM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
29,722 posts, read 47,483,706 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
As you have demonstrated, it is quite easy to justify one's way out of returning to the Lord 1/10th of what is already his anyway. I've never figured out why anyone would be so stingy as to want to do so, though.
Anyone can give anything they wish to give.

The topic of 'Tithe' is discussed in the Bible. The Bible defines the tithe.

So why is it wrong to discuss what the Bible says about tithing?
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Old 05-12-2010, 07:44 AM
 
90 posts, read 218,216 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by denverian View Post
This is the idea my parents got from their pastor. Do other believe this? I'll add that they are members of a mega church that is run by a family that lives lavish lifestyles and hides the finances of the church. They're also under investigation by the IRS, but my ignorant family has bought into this swindler lock, stock, and barrel.
No. I don't believe in the pre-tax or even the post-tax ideas about giving/tithing. I do believe that people of all religions give their money away often based on an emotional moment or sermon or in hopes of getting something in return, like the attention of fellow parishoners or a ticket to heaven.
I am not sure those that wrote the Bible realized that the tithes it suggested may be supporting rock concerts (or as the OP stated, sometimes lavish lifestyles). To me the best way to give is in subtle, anonymous ways and the best gift of all is time, and taking care of yourself so you can help others.
Because we know so much about the brain today and how it functions, folks today must be really careful about the marketing techniques that are known to work so well. As a country we do amazing well at supporting good works through our donations (I have heard that Europe is very different in this way) and that is something to be proud of. But the church tithing formula, I often wonder, hits the folks who don't have a lot and makes them feel guilty if they don't give enough. And again those same people are hit up for their limited cash when there are celebrity fund raisers, like American Idol's annual campaign. I watch and think, how stupid for anyone to pick up the phone and give when the celeb selling the campaign is a multi-millionaire with 5 homes! To be honest I feel the same way when I see unnecessary spending at ANY church and think, why don't they just not build that building or put in that sound system?
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Old 05-12-2010, 07:46 AM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
29,722 posts, read 47,483,706 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
forest beekeeper, what do you make of Jesus telling how great it was that the widow cast the last mite she had for the synagogue. He said she gave more than the others because she gave out of her want. In other words, she was so poor that money she gave she really needed to feed herself but gave it anyway.

Quote:
Mark 12:41 And Jesus sat over against the treasury, and beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much.
:42 And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing.
:43 And he called unto him his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury:
:44 For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living.
Through out the Old Testament history of Israel we see examples of the people wandering away from God. Including examples of godly leaders who were lead stray at times.

After 400 years without a prophet the Temple had developed a treasury, they even had developed a Temple Tax.

The love of money is very powerful in the human mind, very quickly are men led into sin when money is present.

In this passage we see that people came to the Temple's treasury and they cast money into it.

In context we see just before it Jesus' topic was about things that people were doing so they could brag; clothing which separated themselves from the lesser spiritual, salutations, the better seats in the synagogues, the upper-rooms during feasts, how they could destroy widow's homes while making long prayers, and then Jesus brought out this example of a poor widow giving 'all her living' as compared to the wealthy giving from their abundance.

The context is all about pride and boastfulness.

Some were doing it clearly to boast, while the widow gave out of love.

The context says nothing about tithing.

If I recall correctly the OP here was about tithing.

I am entirely in favour of tithing, within the context of how God says to tithe.

I am also in favour of giving. Anyone can give anything they wish to give.

It rather irks me when these two ideas get combined and twisted though. Often the motive for twisting them is greed.
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